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Question about "CE" stamped engines.

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Old 02-16-2017, 11:38 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by kenba View Post
Were the L-88 motors also for sale at that time or were they sold later? I remember that a bunch were sold to the company that was making the Excalibur that was on a Corvette frame. I believe they were made in the 80'S.
Complete L88 engines were sold by GM. In fact, complete all aluminum ZL1 engines were too. There were two part numbers for complete ZL1 engines. One for manual transmission and one for TH400 automatic. Yes, a ZL1 with TH400 was an available option.

As a complete engine assy, the stamp pad would have had the correct stamp characters identifying it for a specific application.
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Old 02-16-2017, 12:52 PM   #22
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Since there are so many that are knowledgeable about this topic monitoring this tread, I wanted to ask a related question.

I have a NOM 67 convertible with a March 1967 build date. I don't know the story as to what happened to the original engine.

The engine in the car now has block casting number of 3959512, a casting date code of K 30 6 (Wednesday Nov 30, 1966) or possibly K 30 8 (Saturday Nov 30, 1968). I suspect the K 30 6 is correct as K 30 8 decodes to the Saturday after Thanksgiving 1968.

The front pad stamping is E7P25852?7C. I was expecting to see a CE prefix, but the first character I can see is an E. Does anyone have a clue what the Front pad stamping means/represents?
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Old 02-16-2017, 02:05 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkrHack View Post
Since there are so many that are knowledgeable about this topic monitoring this tread, I wanted to ask a related question.

I have a NOM 67 convertible with a March 1967 build date. I don't know the story as to what happened to the original engine.

The engine in the car now has block casting number of 3959512, a casting date code of K 30 6 (Wednesday Nov 30, 1966) or possibly K 30 8 (Saturday Nov 30, 1968). I suspect the K 30 6 is correct as K 30 8 decodes to the Saturday after Thanksgiving 1968.

The front pad stamping is E7P25852?7C. I was expecting to see a CE prefix, but the first character I can see is an E. Does anyone have a clue what the Front pad stamping means/represents?
I suspect that there is a "C" in front of the 'E", but it is very faint and impossible to read, or perhaps was left off by accident.. Also, I believe that the single digit that followed the "CE" represents the year the engine was stamped. In this case it is 1967 or 1977.

Last edited by jv04; 02-16-2017 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 02-16-2017, 02:43 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkrHack View Post
Since there are so many that are knowledgeable about this topic monitoring this tread, I wanted to ask a related question.

I have a NOM 67 convertible with a March 1967 build date. I don't know the story as to what happened to the original engine.

The engine in the car now has block casting number of 3959512, a casting date code of K 30 6 (Wednesday Nov 30, 1966) or possibly K 30 8 (Saturday Nov 30, 1968). I suspect the K 30 6 is correct as K 30 8 decodes to the Saturday after Thanksgiving 1968.

The front pad stamping is E7P25852?7C. I was expecting to see a CE prefix, but the first character I can see is an E. Does anyone have a clue what the Front pad stamping means/represents?
That casting number was used starting mid or late 1968. Not 1966. I'm not sure but I think that casting number and block was used for service only and never installed in a production car from the factory.

Also, if I remember correctly, this block was universal and was designed to use with either small or large main bearing crankshaft, depending on how it was machined.

Last edited by Critter1; 02-16-2017 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 02-16-2017, 03:24 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Critter1 View Post
That casting number was used starting mid or late 1968. Not 1966. I'm not sure but I think that casting number and block was used for service only and never installed in a production car from the factory.

Also, if I remember correctly, this block was universal and was designed to use with either small or large main bearing crankshaft, depending on how it was machined.
I believe that to be accurate. I have a 512 block cast in '72. It's also a CE short block. It was one of those bargain basement short blocks machined and stuffed for a '67 Camaro 350. Bought it OTC from Willcox for quite a bit less than the going rate of a service 350 short block. I remember thinking at the time I didn't need it but the price was right and I bought it.

Last edited by MikeM; 02-16-2017 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 02-16-2017, 05:58 PM   #26
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John Hinckley who was with Chevrolet at the time has explained the CE, CT, PE etc.... program. I looked in the stickies of John's greatest hits and did a search on the NCRS board but did not find it.

Someone with better search skills than I may be able to unearth it. It is well worth reading, and you can take it to the bank.
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Old 02-16-2017, 06:32 PM   #27
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Same info already posted here. Different name, different date.

Service Engine (CE) and Transmission Coding
Quoting from the Chevrolet Dealer Service Information Bulletin, 69-I-1, dated 19 Sept, 1968:

The following system will be used to identify service engine and transmission assemblies* including replacement parts. Manufacturing plants will number each assembly as it is produce. The first letter will designate the GM division which produced the engine.
C-Chevrolet L-Oldsmobile K-Cadillac B-Buick P-Pontiac

The second letter will designate the type of unit "E" engine or "T" transmission. The number following the letter will designate the model year "9" for 1969. The last five digits specify the service replacement unit sequence number. The group of numbers to be used by Chevrolet manufacturing plants are as follows:

Engines
Flint Motor Plant (L6 Engines) 00001 to 19999
80001 to 89999
Flint V8 Engine Plant 20000 to 49999
Tonawanda Motor Plant 50000 to 79999
Example: Number CE900175 designates Chevrolet engine - 1969 year, and the 175th unit produced for service at the Flint Motor Plant (L6).

Transmissions
Cleveland Transmission Plant 00001 to 14999
Toledo Transmission Plant 15000 to 24999
Saginaw Transmission Plant 25000 to 34999
Muncie Transmission Plant 35000 to 44999
Hydra-Matic transmissions will be numbered with the letter "H"
regardless of the G.M. Division using the transmission.
* This numbering system applies to service engine assemblies, partial engines, fitted cylinder cases, cylinder cases, transmission assemblies and transmission cases.
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Old 02-16-2017, 06:47 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
Same info already posted here. Different name, different date.

Service Engine (CE) and Transmission Coding
Quoting from the Chevrolet Dealer Service Information Bulletin, 69-I-1, dated 19 Sept, 1968:

The following system will be used to identify service engine and transmission assemblies* including replacement parts. Manufacturing plants will number each assembly as it is produce. The first letter will designate the GM division which produced the engine.
C-Chevrolet L-Oldsmobile K-Cadillac B-Buick P-Pontiac

The second letter will designate the type of unit "E" engine or "T" transmission. The number following the letter will designate the model year "9" for 1969. The last five digits specify the service replacement unit sequence number. The group of numbers to be used by Chevrolet manufacturing plants are as follows:

Engines
Flint Motor Plant (L6 Engines) 00001 to 19999
80001 to 89999
Flint V8 Engine Plant 20000 to 49999
Tonawanda Motor Plant 50000 to 79999
Example: Number CE900175 designates Chevrolet engine - 1969 year, and the 175th unit produced for service at the Flint Motor Plant (L6).

Transmissions
Cleveland Transmission Plant 00001 to 14999
Toledo Transmission Plant 15000 to 24999
Saginaw Transmission Plant 25000 to 34999
Muncie Transmission Plant 35000 to 44999
Hydra-Matic transmissions will be numbered with the letter "H"
regardless of the G.M. Division using the transmission.
* This numbering system applies to service engine assemblies, partial engines, fitted cylinder cases, cylinder cases, transmission assemblies and transmission cases.
Thanks Mike. I just spent the last 1/2 hour searching my old computer for the original GM sheet on this.

I don't see anything different than what we posted earlier.

I mentioned earlier that I thought this became effective in engine production around late 67 for the 68 model year but I'm not sure. May have been late 68? If that was the case, all partial engines that were already in stock at GM warehouses would not have the CExxxx stamp.

Last edited by Critter1; 02-17-2017 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:02 PM   #29
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Here is JohnZ's reply to this issue from 2003.

Here is a link to the actual thread:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...Ej8CnV7IJvNZLg


Here's a summary on the "CE" engines, from the "Engine" section of our CRG (Camaro Research Group) website, http://www.camaros.org:

Quoting from a Chevrolet Dealer Service Information Bulletin dated 14 April, 1969, on the new identification scheme for 5/50 warranty components:

The first letter will designate the GM division which produced the engine. C-Chevrolet L-Oldsmobile K-Cadillac B-Buick P-Pontiac
The second letter will designate the type of unit "E" engine or "T" transmission. The number following the letter will designate the model year "9" for 1969. The last five digits specify the service replacement unit sequence number. The group of numbers to be used by Chevrolet manufacturing plants [for engines, CRG] are as follows:


Flint motor plant (L-6 engines) 00001 to 19999
Flint V-8 engine plant 20000 to 49999
Tonawanda motor plant 50000 to 79999
Example: Number CE900175 designates Chevrolet engine - 1969 year, and the 175th unit produced for service at the Flint motor plant.

This numbering system applies to service engine assemblies, partial engines, fitted cylinder cases, cylinder cases, transmission assemblies and transmission cases.

Note that engine plants took some liberties with this scheme and the sequence coding changed somewhat over the years, including some added characters whose meaning is unknown.
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:23 PM   #30
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I have ave been trying to figure out year/date of my CE motor as well. My numbers on my engine stamp pad show ce2n22661. I am guessing the 2 after ce is for in service date 1972? But not sure what the N designates. The 22661 designates a flint michigan motor. It is a 3959512 327 block.

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Originally Posted by jv04 View Post
Here is JohnZ's reply to this issue from 2003.

Here is a link to the actual thread:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...Ej8CnV7IJvNZLg


Here's a summary on the "CE" engines, from the "Engine" section of our CRG (Camaro Research Group) website, http://www.camaros.org:

Quoting from a Chevrolet Dealer Service Information Bulletin dated 14 April, 1969, on the new identification scheme for 5/50 warranty components:

The first letter will designate the GM division which produced the engine. C-Chevrolet L-Oldsmobile K-Cadillac B-Buick P-Pontiac
The second letter will designate the type of unit "E" engine or "T" transmission. The number following the letter will designate the model year "9" for 1969. The last five digits specify the service replacement unit sequence number. The group of numbers to be used by Chevrolet manufacturing plants [for engines, CRG] are as follows:


Flint motor plant (L-6 engines) 00001 to 19999
Flint V-8 engine plant 20000 to 49999
Tonawanda motor plant 50000 to 79999
Example: Number CE900175 designates Chevrolet engine - 1969 year, and the 175th unit produced for service at the Flint motor plant.

This numbering system applies to service engine assemblies, partial engines, fitted cylinder cases, cylinder cases, transmission assemblies and transmission cases.

Note that engine plants took some liberties with this scheme and the sequence coding changed somewhat over the years, including some added characters whose meaning is unknown.
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:28 PM   #31
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Thanks everyone. Definitely some conflicting opinions here. I'm leaning towards it being a Nov 30, 1966 cast block with the engine being assembled sometime in 1967 based on the 7 being stamped on the pad after the E. One other oddity is that the block has a spin on style oil filter instead of the canister, but the crankcase vent tube comes from the back of the engine like an original 1967 Corvette engine should. While it is still a NOM, the engine in the car has a period correct appearance (except for the oil filter).
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:42 PM   #32
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Thanks everyone. Definitely some conflicting opinions here. I'm leaning towards it being a Nov 30, 1966 cast block with the engine being assembled sometime in 1967
I can pretty much guarantee that your engine was not cast in 66. There was no such thing as a 3959512 casting in 1966.
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:59 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Critter1 View Post
I can pretty much guarantee that your engine was not cast in 66. There was no such thing as a 3959512 casting in 1966.


I see a lot of references on the web saying that casting being a 62-67 casting, but I think those are people that found their CE block in whateveryearcar and made the assumption that was a factory installed on the assembly line, block.

If the casting date is a 6, I would suggest 1976 as the casting date. 8 woudl probably be 1968.

I do not think the 512 block was cast past 1976 or 1977, but I have no proof.

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Old 02-17-2017, 01:15 PM   #34
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Looking at your stamp pad, i think the block was decked and somebody placed the current E7Pxxxx.., stamping, what ever is means, on there after decking.

The other set of numbers probably meant something at one time.
Doug



Quote:
Originally Posted by AkrHack View Post
Thanks everyone. Definitely some conflicting opinions here. I'm leaning towards it being a Nov 30, 1966 cast block with the engine being assembled sometime in 1967 based on the 7 being stamped on the pad after the E. One other oddity is that the block has a spin on style oil filter instead of the canister, but the crankcase vent tube comes from the back of the engine like an original 1967 Corvette engine should. While it is still a NOM, the engine in the car has a period correct appearance (except for the oil filter).
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:45 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkrHack View Post
Thanks everyone. Definitely some conflicting opinions here. I'm leaning towards it being a Nov 30, 1966 cast block with the engine being assembled sometime in 1967 based on the 7 being stamped on the pad after the E. One other oddity is that the block has a spin on style oil filter instead of the canister, but the crankcase vent tube comes from the back of the engine like an original 1967 Corvette engine should. While it is still a NOM, the engine in the car has a period correct appearance (except for the oil filter).
Respectfully you are assuming a great deal.

Flint built engines which were cast in Saginaw were built in a very timely manner unlike Tonawanda big blocks.

There were no small block "512" cast blocks in 1966 or 1967 that I know of.

Once again, John Hinckley to the rescue. John has a post somewhere in the past regarding the small block "512". I believe he states the year range in that post. It was a service only block to supply engines for older models that needed the block ventilation (road draft tube hole by the distributor) The small block transitioned to "010" block from 1967 into 1969. If you do your homework you will find there are several 4 inch bore small black casting number changes in that year range. Particularly 1969.

There is also a big block "512" casting starting use in production sometime in the 1969-70 era. I do not recall all the 7 digits of either block as they are not in my area of greatest interest.

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Old 02-18-2017, 07:35 AM   #36
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Thanks for all of the great information.

Given that consensus that the this block casting could not have been done in 1966, a 1976 date is perhaps more likely. The casting number on the heads is 3991492 with a date code of H 20 6. I think that equates to 1976 also. With the pieces of the puzzle that the forum members are putting together for me, it sounds plausible that the block and heads were cast in 1976 and the stamp on the front pad represented 1977 when the engine could have been purchased over the counter.

I did get the name of the owner who had the car in the 1970s. I don't have a phone number, but did write him a letter a month ago asking him to contact me so I can ask about the history of the car, including what happened to the original motor and when/where the engine that is in the car now came from. I have my fingers crossed that he will reach out to me, but I'm not holding my breath!

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Old 02-18-2017, 10:20 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Critter1 View Post
Complete L88 engines were sold by GM. In fact, complete all aluminum ZL1 engines were too. There were two part numbers for complete ZL1 engines. One for manual transmission and one for TH400 automatic. Yes, a ZL1 with TH400 was an available option.

As a complete engine assy, the stamp pad would have had the correct stamp characters identifying it for a specific application.
Thanks.I know that you could order any engine OTC but I was wandering if they were part of the fire sale GM had years later as you talked about. I was told that a bunch of complete L-88'S dated 68/69 were setting in a warehouse when Excalibur bought them. Also I believe a lot of them were bought OTC for boats.
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