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Hi Neighbors - C2 question

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Old 02-16-2017, 05:06 PM   #21
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Is it just me or do both frame ends look a little imperfect? One shows rust and the other has a circular pattern where it looks like it was welded and finished poorly before paint. I could be wrong. It doesn't look problematic just a detail that could have been done better on a high end restoration.

The car is pretty, and while I don't know what it's truly worth I would feel a $45k offer is insulting for a real fuellie - even though 63/64 convertibles are the most affordable a c2's car for car.

$45k is a fair value for a VERY nice driver matching numbers Hydraulic lifter 63/64 I would guess (not having looked) that a car of this caliber is probably a high $50's/low $60's proposition. I would pay more than $45k for a slick FAKE fuel injected car that presents well and drives out nice.

I note that it doesn't have screws in the leading holes of the rocker moldings. I wonder if the tabs were cut for side exhaust. If it had side exhausts, I wonder what it's other stories are!

benton
Thanks Benton...... this is the input I need. I appreciate it.

Jim
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Old 02-16-2017, 05:14 PM   #22
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That looks like a very nice '63 and I've seen it on the net before most probably from this dealer. I'm wondering with all the pictures why there isn't a shot of the tags?
Do the paint jams look too bright for you guys? The exhaust bezels don't appear to be '63 but hard to tell from pictures. Small things that are easily fixed.

I have an interest in this car because my coupe is #15,240 or just 12 cars ahead of this one. If you go to take a closer look I would be interested in knowing it's engine casting date and engine build date on the stamp pad. I have recorded about 5 cars very close to this vin that were said to have their original motors and they all line up with one another. While those 5 cars are not fuelies perhaps this car will line up with the other cars dates and provide you with some good clues.

Good luck with your decision!
Syd
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Old 02-16-2017, 05:21 PM   #23
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That looks like a very nice '63 and I've seen it on the net before most probably from this dealer. I'm wondering with all the pictures why there isn't a shot of the tags?
Do the paint jams look too bright for you guys? The exhaust bezels don't appear to be '63 but hard to tell from pictures. Small things that are easily fixed.

I have an interest in this car because my coupe is #15,240 or just 12 cars ahead of this one. If you go to take a closer look I would be interested in knowing it's engine casting date and engine build date on the stamp pad. I have recorded about 5 cars very close to this vin that were said to have their original motors and they all line up with one another. While those 5 cars are not fuelies perhaps this car will line up with the other cars dates and provide you with some good clues.

Good luck with your decision!
Syd
Hi Syd

Sure thing, I can do that. There is one photo (not sure if you noticed it or not) of the engine stamp where you can definitely make out the last 6 numbers of the VIN like I read somewhere is supposed to be there but then the rest of the engine code gets too grainy to read.

Since this dealership is about 40 miles from me and I've been too busy to get there plus I wouldn't want to take it home until the end of March or April anyway due to the lovely coating of salt on our South Dakota roads I have asked them to send me photos of all the ID tags so I can look for myself at the info.
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Old 02-16-2017, 06:32 PM   #24
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In my opinion if it is truly all matching and original, I don't see why it wouldn't be too far off the 89.
It has all the right colors and it's a fuelie
But nothing without an inspection and 89 isn't realistic

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Old 02-16-2017, 09:08 PM   #25
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For that money go buy a coup and double your money in 10 years
That frame has weld marks were it was filled in from rust and smoothed over.
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:35 AM   #26
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For that money go buy a coup and double your money in 10 years
That frame has weld marks were it was filled in from rust and smoothed over.
Convertibles rule!
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:23 AM   #27
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In the photos I noticed the rocker moldings do not have all the bottom screws attached and I think the fore and aft alignment is off on the drivers side.
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Old 02-17-2017, 07:48 AM   #28
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There are a few knit-picking things and I don't think the OP has a money problem...he wants THIS car; but I wouldn't walk in there with cash falling out of my pockets. That car hasn't gone anywhere in months....arrange an inspection and have the frame/birdcage looked at...especially that oval spot on the frame that looks like a bad repair....frames rust from the INSIDE OUT....by the time you see damage (even if its repaired) its bad news.
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Old 02-17-2017, 08:00 AM   #29
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There are a few knit-picking things and I don't think the OP has a money problem...he wants THIS car; but I wouldn't walk in there with cash falling out of my pockets. That car hasn't gone anywhere in months....arrange an inspection and have the frame/birdcage looked at...especially that oval spot on the frame that looks like a bad repair....frames rust from the INSIDE OUT....by the time you see damage (even if its repaired) its bad news.
Correct.... the problem is not the money and as stated earlier I wouldn't pay what they are asking for it and if they don't budge I buy a 2017 C7 Grand Sport this year and look for another C2 for a later time.

As far as the inspection, I sent an e-mail (didn't find a phone number) to my state's NCRS chapter rep seeing if there was someone local or within close proximity who knows 63 FI's who would be willing to look at the car. I told him I had no issues renting the person's time.

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Old 02-17-2017, 08:21 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Frankie the Fink View Post
There are a few knit-picking things and I don't think the OP has a money problem...he wants THIS car; but I wouldn't walk in there with cash falling out of my pockets. That car hasn't gone anywhere in months....arrange an inspection and have the frame/birdcage looked at...especially that oval spot on the frame that looks like a bad repair....frames rust from the INSIDE OUT....by the time you see damage (even if its repaired) its bad news.

Showing my lack of knowledge with C2s on this next question.....

Is the frame area mentioned a common rot out section on C2's or could these spots just be poor welds / prep as it come out of the factory?

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Old 02-17-2017, 08:34 AM   #31
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I'd have to go back and look at the pictures to remember where that patch was...now, I'm saying it looked funny (as someone else did also) it COULD be fine but isn't typical.

Whatever it is is NOT factory. Both C1/C2s are bad for rusting at the 'kick-ups' just before the rear wheels... Reason being that water, pine straw, gunk gets 'pushed back to that area as the car moves forward and can collect and decay over the years causing rust. This picture is a C1 (not a C2) but it will give you the idea. Again, the area needs looked at - could very well be fine...

The level of restoration done on the car would make me believe that anything like that would have been fixed - but believing isn't seeing...

The second pic shows one area of concern...on the car in question..
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Old 02-17-2017, 08:39 AM   #32
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Here are a couple of frame rot photos specific to the c2/c3 frame.


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Old 02-17-2017, 08:40 AM   #33
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I'd have to go back and look at the pictures to remember where that patch was...now, I'm saying it looked funny (as someone else did also) it COULD be fine but isn't typical.

Whatever it is is NOT factory. Both C1/C2s are bad for rusting at the 'kick-ups' just before the rear wheels... Reason being that water, pine straw, gunk gets 'pushed back to that area as the car moves forward and can collect and decay over the years causing rust. This picture is a C1 (not a C2) but it will give you the idea. Again, the area needs looked at - could very well be fine...

The level of restoration done on the car would make me believe that anything like that would have been fixed - but believing isn't seeing...

The second pic shows one area of concern...
Thanks a lot, this helps a bunch
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Old 02-17-2017, 08:41 AM   #34
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Here are a couple of frame rot photos specific to the c2/c3 frame.


Thank you
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Old 02-17-2017, 08:52 AM   #35
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Another place to check is the Z-bar/birdcage area....a favorite place for rot if a leaky windshield was allowed to persist...

The Z-bar goes under the glovebox and has the two metal tags on it; the birdcage (on a convertible) goes horizontally under the windshield and down where the hinge pillar is....this is my '63 coupe...

Again, not trying to put you off of the car, but, "....shiny paint won't make it what it ain't" -- as we say... This is why you need a savvy inspector.

I have friends who pour over the prospectus before paying $5K for shares of a mutual fund but then throw $45K at a classic car they know nothing about...I don't get it...

Again, I like this car a lot and if it checks out it would be nice to have in the stable...
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Old 02-17-2017, 09:00 AM   #36
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Honestly my gut feel says to lay $45K cash on the desk as a starting point and if I get kicked out the door I guess that was too insulting. If I at least get a counter offer then I know they are serious and willing to negotiate. The missing piece is what is the walk-away point?
IMO, that is a laughable offer for that car assuming it's a solid car/body even if it's not actually all original which it isn't because it's all been redone.

Your offer might buy the FI unit and the parts/labor for the resto. But it probably wouldn't.

I won't pay extra for what some like to call real cars as opposed to a made car. I have one just like that but I made it, engine wise. The rest of the car is unrestored original. I think I have it loss insured for $50K which is what I think it is worth. The car you're looking at is much prettier than mine.
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Old 02-17-2017, 09:03 AM   #37
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I wasn't going to say it but $45K might just get you escorted off the property....on the flip side I have my original, numbers matching split window insured for $95K - base motor, red/red, not freshly restored.

I think your number is somewhere in the middle of those two figures...the inspection would firm up a decent offer..
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Old 02-17-2017, 09:34 AM   #38
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look like both sides have been repaired Plates welded on rear part
even in the long piece
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:03 AM   #39
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Another place to check is the Z-bar/birdcage area....a favorite place for rot if a leaky windshield was allowed to persist...

The Z-bar goes under the glovebox and has the two metal tags on it; the birdcage (on a convertible) goes horizontally under the windshield and down where the hinge pillar is....this is my '63 coupe...

Again, not trying to put you off of the car, but, "....shiny paint won't make it what it ain't" -- as we say... This is why you need a savvy inspector.

I have friends who pour over the prospectus before paying $5K for shares of a mutual fund but then throw $45K at a classic car they know nothing about...I don't get it...

Again, I like this car a lot and if it checks out it would be nice to have in the stable...
Absolutely correct, I sincerely appreciate all the input
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:12 AM   #40
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IMO, that is a laughable offer for that car assuming it's a solid car/body even if it's not actually all original which it isn't because it's all been redone.

Your offer might buy the FI unit and the parts/labor for the resto. But it probably wouldn't.

I won't pay extra for what some like to call real cars as opposed to a made car. I have one just like that but I made it, engine wise. The rest of the car is unrestored original. I think I have it loss insured for $50K which is what I think it is worth. The car you're looking at is much prettier than mine.
Thank You.... I was hoping with the comment I made about the $45K I was going to solicit some better idea of a starting point which several of you have helped with so that is what I needed.

My gut, and impressions from this forum is this is a $65-75K car provided the questionable frame areas and other spots check out.

My dad always used to say you can put as many layers of paint you want on turd to make it pretty, but underneath it's still a turd.
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