DrungoHazewood

I registered here a long time ago, but just started posting so feel free to treat me as a new guy. I have a '63 SWC with the wrong motor, it has a big block 396. Wrong hood because of that, but I have the original hood. No clue where the original block is. I'm pretty sure it originally had a 327/340.

I'm at the very early stages of a full restoration, so I won't get to the "need a new motor" part for a while, but I'm starting to ask questions.

My end goal is to have a reasonably safe, reasonably reliable driver. Not a daily driver, but when it's nice out I'll drive it to work. Don't care about winning shows, don't care about massive horsepower. But I do want it to look original. Not NCRS original, not trying to fool anyone, but I'd like it to look like a '63 Vette. I'm not above putting a 327 or 340 sticker on the valve covers, even if it's not really that.

So the question is, what's the best option for a motor in the $5-10k range that meets my requirements and, at least at first glance looks original? I've read a number of threads on drop in engine choices. I think I've learned that 350s and 383s are the same block as a 327, so would a crate 383 be a fairly inexpensive way to get where I'm going?

If there are existing threads please point me in the right direction, I searched a while but I'm sure I didn't see everything.

wmf62

your biggest problem with a 'new' crate engine is that they don't have the rear PCV/road draft hole in the rear of the block... your best is to find a block with that hole and build whatever you want.


Bill

vettebuyer6369

You can deal with the no PCV issue too if you really want... I had a '58 that came with a 350 and I wanted it to look as original as possible while using the script valve covers until I could find the right 283. We drilled the PCV in the intake behind the carb and used a breather oil cap. Looked just fine for the time I had it.

wmf62

the problem is not the PCV, it's the 'look'; ya gotta have the hole in the back for an original looking 63.

Bill

vettebuyer6369

I was considering the ability to use the Corvette aluminum script valve covers without modifying them as the "look" I was referring to.

wmf62

I agree, but the lack of a rear 'hole' is a dead giveaway


Bill

Easy Rhino

OP, how many people noticed the incorrect hood or the big block as incorrect?

Fewer would notice the wrong PCV setup pictured above.

Most on here would.

It depends on the level of correctness you're looking for, and for who.

You could paint a crate engine orange and be done with it. That's probably the easiest, and only the OCD Corvette types (like me, admittedly) will notice.

Or for about the same range of money, you could put together a date-correct '63 340. Then you could take a small deduction for the incorrect stamp on your block, and still earn top judging scores.

Randy G.

With the ignition shielding on unless you climb all over it only you would know the block breather hole was missing. I put a Blueprint 383 in my 1962 from Summit. It has a roller hydraulic cam, roller rockers, one piece late style rear main seal, came with dyno sheets, less carb, intake manifold and ignition for under $3900. It has a warranty, uses no special oil, and has 435 hp with 465 ft lbs of torque and runs great. No one has ever looked under the hood at a car show and asked me if it was or wasn't the original engine. I put a 1962 style air cleaner on it from Corvette Central and it looks period correct with modern internals.

watson

At one point, I was considering a crate engine in a 65. I also wanted it to look like a 327 and I came up with a solution to the draft tube. The 350 block has a flat area where the earlier tube went into the rear of the block. I had a junk 350 so I drilled a 1 inch hole in the flat. I then put a bulkhead fitting in and adapted a stock tube to fit. Unless you crawl down the back of the engine you would never notice the mod. The hole in the intake will work to save the valve covers, but you still don't have the tube showing. All in all, it was an easy mod that looked pretty good.

​​​​​​​Doc

Shift_Happens

I'm going through that very same process now with the engine for my swc. Luckily, I had a 512 block to start with that has the breather hole in the back. I started collecting the 340 parts since the summer (correct intake, carb, exhaust, air cleaner, 6 qt pan) to complete the look. There are blocks out there that will get you started. With all the modern parts it will certainly run better than the original 340's.

Oaker57

I put a 350/300 crate in my 64 since my original was gone. I too wanted it to look as original, or more so period correct as possible for all the same reasons the OP stated.

My research came up with valve covers from a Co. called PML. http://www.yourcovers.com/valve_covers_11026.php

They solved my problem of no road draft vent and even though I'm not trying to fool anyone, I have yet to have anyone ask me about them at any car shows or cruises, and after all that work on the engine bay my hood is always open. Yes everyone here on the forum would notice in a heartbeat, but would only need to mention it if they wanted to bust my buns.

Here is a picture when I first got them and was experimenting.
When the shielding and the air cleaner are on, you really have to look close to notice. Point is that they help give the appearance of period correct. Hope this helps...

Revfan

I think, if it were me, I'd just find a 60s 327 and go from there...

1963 327 Small Block Chevy Engine - $2000 (south san francisco)

327 1963 sbc corvette 3782870 f103 3844461 hot rat traditional rod 32 - $3500


327-300 HP Corvette Engine - $2500 (Valparaiso IN)

327CUI & 283CUI FRESS MOTORS - $2000 (Chicago Ridge)

CHEVY ENGINE 327/65 CORVETTE - $2000 (HUNT VALLEY, MD)


1965 corvette 4sp 350HP engine. Less than 1000 miles on rebuild. - $3000

Revfan

And this thread, in our for sale section here

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...e-engines.html

DrungoHazewood

That is great, thanks for this and the prior post. I had no idea if finding a good 327 motor was easy/hard/impossible, and now it looks at least do-able on a pretty reasonable budget. That Hunt Valley, MD engine is a couple hours from me.

I think I prefer a 327 to a crate, even if the numbers don't match or it's not exactly the right date code, more for aesthetic purposes than anything else. Like I said at the top of the thread high horsepower is way, way down on my list of priorities. I just want something that's pretty reliable and looks correct if you don't start checking too close.

DrungoHazewood

Appreciate the post, thanks. I think (at the moment) I'm leaning towards an actual 327 block but this looks like a very reasonable option, too.

DrungoHazewood

Me! And my old man. Not too many others.

That's the internal debate. Or it least is was yesterday before I wasn't quite sure of the availability, cost, and work involved in a date-correct 327. All I really knew is that Tony Avdesidian quoted me about $18k for a essentially 100% correct, absolutely spotless January '63 327 block built up, installed, and tested. I'm interested in looking original, but I'm pretty sure I'm not $18k interested.

If I can build up/buy (or some combination thereof) a 1963-ish 327 for about the cost of a crate that's probably the way I'll go.

Easy Rhino

This is the same debate I've been dealing with for three years (yes, I'm OCD). My car will never be top flighted, even though most parts are original, except the engine (but many parts on it are original).

Although I could probably put in a crate/stroker/etc. for little more than a decent 327, I've opted for a highly original 327 that from the outside will look 100% original (unless you look for the matching VIN on the block stamp pad, which will be left blank). Mine was originally a L76, so a 365 HP build should provide adequate scoot with 4.11 rear gears. However, given some help on the forum here (see: "help me build my engine" thread) I will do some internal (invisible) mods that should provide even more pep.

I'm doing the build myself, so it's a budget build, and I have most of the key parts with some exceptions. I picked up a date-matching short block with good rotating assembly (correct crank, anyway) that has an original 4.000 bore with no ridge, for $700. So it can be done on the cheap and be very close to original.

It is hard for me to figure out why a "correct" 327 would cost $18K, unless it contains far more high end parts inside that you may never need or use. Even with your engine supplier doing all the work, I just can't get to $18K.

Even with a correctly date-coded block broached and restamped to match your car's VIN (not illegal as many believe, but highly questionable - this gets into fraudulent intent issues), I can't get close to that price.

If your SWC is mostly original, installing an engine that's correct for all but the "born with" block, but numbers matching should increase you car's value more than the cost of your new engine. Also, if your car is in pretty good nick overall, you can top flight it even with a non-original block.

DrungoHazewood

I don't feel comfortable posting Tony's whole estimate, but here's the parts list for the engine and related bits:

engine rebuild
carb carter 3461s
distributor rebuild yours
flywheel
fuel line pump to carb
air cleaner assembly
alternator with correct pully
plug wires/holders/plugs
belts
waterpump correct 326 casting
block 870 correct dated
stamping of block
461 heads
timing cover
crank/rods
oil pan 6 qt
dipstick/tube correct
rod draft tube set up
water pump fittings/intake fittings
harmonic balancer finned
water pump/crank pulley set up
ign shield kit complete
heater/radiator hoses correct/clamps
belts
starter/seloid
bellhousing
all hardware for motor/engine cmpt
clutch/pressure plate/throw out bear
clutch z-bar/spring/plate/fork/rod/anti
all fluids
radiator dated for the car correct
overflow tank/straps hdw
valve cover/gasket
hood hinges/hood reciever,male/female
alternator bracket kit
fan clutch
engine harness/ground strap kit/battery cables
paint for engine compartment/supplies

I did some spot checking of prices from places like Zip or Ecklers and the prices were high but ballpark. I'm assuming Tony would be pulling a lot of the parts from his own extensive stock of non-reproduction stuff. And the $18k had all the labor included. I chocked it up to that being the going rate for a '63 SWC guru doing everything exactly right.

And remember, I'm going with the assumption that almost nothing on the current motor can be reused. (I guess a follow-on question is how much is an old 396 block with some associated components worth? I have no use for them, so I'll try to sell.)

In any case, I think from this thread I've figured out I can do it myself for less than half that. I'll just need a lot of help and advice and probably will screw some stuff up the first (or second or third) time.

Oh, and your "Okay, Let's Have Fun Helping Me Build My Engine" thread is full of goodness.

63 340HP

Now that you narrowed the choice down to a NOM 327 block to build with, identify the installed rear pumpkin gear ratio and trans ratios to match your build up engine rpm range to the rpm range you drive the car.

If your car was a 340hp, it is likely to have a 4.11 rear gear. While the 300 hp engine configuration offers plenty of low rpm tire spinning torque, it runs out of breath above about 85 mph (enough for cruising and very quick passing in traffic, but tiresome on trips where traffic is running 80 mph all the time). The thought process is to build higher rpm into the engine combination, or set aside money for a higher rear gear (3.70 or 3:55 gears, to work traffic with less rpm).

A good used 327 long block can be found for around $1,000. A complete machine shop long block rebuild with Eagle or SCAT rods, with new pistons, bearings, and cam/lifters should be possible for another $3,000.

The expensive appearance parts that are missing are the 63' 340hp intake, the AFB and air cleaner housing, shielding tin, and some of the 63' nickle and dime stuff that look original to the picky critic (small stuff that really costs $100 and $300 per order from the restoration parts vendors). If you have time and scour the parts forums and internet lists, most of these parts come up and a $1,000-$2,000 budget will cover the parts (time deadline being the difference).

The engine money saved can fund a complete rebuilt pumpkin with gears.

The big dollar quote you posted looks like the correct dated block, water pump, pulleys, idler, fuel pump, dated AFB (etc.), and hard to find dated small parts that are not as easily noticed but needed for judging are found for the build. None of this correct date stuff is inexpensive.

Good luck.

Easy Rhino

Some of those parts listed by your builder ARE expensive ones, for certain; however, a lot of the parts listed are not specified, although for that price you should expect quality. I note that the list did include a restamp, as discussed above.

The folks here have saved me a ton of time, money, and frustration over the years, and I'm confident that you'll get the help you need here.

That "help me build" thread drew out a lot of expert advice, and lots of these guys know what they're doing, and do it well, and at a high level.

Good luck!