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This is my first post on the C 1/C 2 forum.
I have a 63 coupe with a nom F I motor. The motor has about 3500 miles on it (first fired in 2006). The F I unit was restored in 2002 buy the guy in Indiana. I did not have the correct distributor at that time. The restorer provided me with the (as far as I knew) correct one that had been restored. The engine is a date correct block with all the correct internals including a nos 097 cam. The heads are date correct 461 X with 2.02/1.60 stainless valves.
Shortly after I began to drive the car I had a problem withe the ignition cutting out and the engine would die. Upon examination I realized the breaker plate was loose. I tightened every thing up and it ran fine. About 300 or so miles later when driving the car began to have a consistent miss. When I pulled the cap I( noticed the points were covered in oil.
My temporary fix for this was to install the other distributor I had (61 315 hp dual pt. centrifugal). That was back in 2006. The replacement distributor housing was at one time (before my possession) broken and welded back together. It works but I would like to have the correct dist. redone and in the car for all the right reasons. I also want to ask if you guys think it is possible that the oil in the distributor came from having a high volume /high pressure pump. I have a 80# oil gauge that shows 60 plus psi at idle . My theory is it blew the top seal ( if it was replaced during the restoration).
I would like to send it to Lars for rebuild and a new curve to work with the Duntov cam. I also would like to change the vacuum advance system from ported (63 only) to full time.
I didn't know about the oil pump being HV/HP when the engine was built. In my 9 years of NCRS membership and lurking here for the last 3 years I have learned a lot about the original design. I know the original oil pumps ran about 35# +/- at hot idle.
This is my first post on the C 1/C 2 forum.
I have a 63 coupe with a nom F I motor. The motor has about 3500 miles on it (first fired in 2006). The F I unit was restored in 2002 buy the guy in Indiana. I did not have the correct distributor at that time. The restorer provided me with the (as far as I knew) correct one that had been restored. The engine is a date correct block with all the correct internals including a nos 097 cam. The heads are date correct 461 X with 2.02/1.60 stainless valves.
Shortly after I began to drive the car I had a problem withe the ignition cutting out and the engine would die. Upon examination I realized the breaker plate was loose. I tightened every thing up and it ran fine. About 300 or so miles later when driving the car began to have a consistent miss. When I pulled the cap I( noticed the points were covered in oil.
My temporary fix for this was to install the other distributor I had (61 315 hp dual pt. centrifugal). That was back in 2006. The replacement distributor housing was at one time (before my possession) broken and welded back together. It works but I would like to have the correct dist. redone and in the car for all the right reasons. I also want to ask if you guys think it is possible that the oil in the distributor came from having a high volume /high pressure pump. I have a 80# oil gauge that shows 60 plus psi at idle . My theory is it blew the top seal ( if it was replaced during the restoration).
I would like to send it to Lars for rebuild and a new curve to work with the Duntov cam. I also would like to change the vacuum advance system from ported (63 only) to full time.
I didn't know about the oil pump being HV/HP when the engine was built. In my 9 years of NCRS membership and lurking here for the last 3 years I have learned a lot about the original design. I know the original oil pumps ran about 35# +/- at hot idle.
All advice is most welcome.
Send it to Lars. I doubt your oil pressure is a problem.
I'm pretty sure Lars does not do FI distributors.................at least that's what he told me last year. I recommend Don Baker. He's the FI distributor guru. His ph # is 815-498-9522
I've never done business with Don Baker but I know he has a very good rep. You can send it to him to fix and then send the repair receipt to the guy in Indiana to recover the costs. That's fair, isn't it?
I've never done business with Don Baker but I know he has a very good rep. You can send it to him to fix and then send the repair receipt to the guy in Indiana to recover the costs. That's fair, isn't it?
Mike,
Don has restored 3 FI distributors for me and they are all like, or probably better than new. My experience with Don has always been pleasant and positive. Perhaps some of the FI rebuilders that frequent the forum will chime in.
Thank you for the responses. I emailed Lars earlier and gave him a picture and short explanation. No response yet.
I do not know the difference in the seals of the two different distributors that I have ,but the older one has been in the car for 3000 + miles and it doesn't leak. That leads me to believe that the correct dist. must have not been restored correctly. I do not know who actually restored it. From it's appearance it has the gear installed with good end play. I will check the rotor to dimple alignment.
I had planned to contact Mr. Lockwood to go over the whole F I and dist. situation but I saw a few months ago that he is no longer doing this work.
I will give Mr. Baker a call on Monday.
As far as the original restoration of the F I system goes, the dist. is the smaller part of that problem
Don Baker is one of, if not the best, person for rebuilding/repairing FI distributors.
Oh ya, ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL FI distributors with vac adv used manifold vacuum, NOT ported. Manifold vacuum is vacuum that is BELOW the throttle valve. The distributor vacuum fitting (a small elbow) on a 63 air meter is BELOW the throttle plate, with a 3/16in steel tube that runs around the back of the plenum lid and attaches to the vac adv with a length of vac tubing.
Oh ya, if there is oil inside the upper part of the distributor, then a seal has gone bad, OR, OR, OR, the person who rebuilt it did not replace the seal BETWEEN the upper and lower housing, and possibly didn't replace the two seals on the cross shaft.
And yes, I ALWAYS rebuild the dist when I rebuild customer's FI units and as standard procedure, ALL 3 seals get replaced.
If I run into any "special" issues, I then send it to Don.
... the car began to have a consistent miss. When I pulled the cap I noticed the points were covered in oil.
My temporary fix for this was to install the other distributor I had (61 315 hp dual pt. centrifugal). That was back in 2006. The replacement distributor housing was at one time (before my possession) broken and welded back together. ... I also want to ask if you guys think it is possible that the oil in the distributor came from having a high volume /high pressure pump. ...
All advice is most welcome.
I would replace the HP/HV oil pump with a stock HP pump before I replaced the distributor mainshaft oil seal.
Some big block Chevys may need a high volume and high pressure pump to get enough oil to the rockers. However, I've never encountered a small block that needed a high volume oil pump. High pressure is fine, but a high volume oil pump can empty the pan when driving on the freeway for awhile with a high-numbered rear end! I learned this from experience. Sometimes the oil can't drain back into the pan fast enough.
The oil leaves an FI distributor gear chamber by gravity. It enters under pressure, so if you have too much oil volume it can fill the gear chamber and push past a weak mainshaft oil seal. The mainshaft oil seal in a '63 FI 022 distributor sits just above the gear chamber and below the mainshaft upper bushing. However, the mainshaft oil seal in a 914 distributor sits higher and above the mainshaft upper bushing.
Don Baker can also repair your welded distributor housing properly. He presses a never-damaged lower section into a recess he machines into the distributor mounting flange. The joint he creates is both strong and undetectable.
Last edited by jerrybramlett; 03-19-2017 at 01:03 PM.
I am hearing from the FI heroes I have read about. This is great.
I really do not care about fixing the older dist. right now. How ever I will definitely Call Mr. Baker on Monday.
What I am hearing is that the oil pump needs to be replaced with a regular volume pump. I have a 40 year old pump (Mellings M-55)with the stock pressure relief spring cleaned and ready to go. I did that last year in anticipation. The gears are clean with no wear. The cover is flat and smooth. I will check the clearance (don't remember "Duke's" number). I want to replace the pump and distributor at the same time and convert to full time vacuum. I have added power brakes to the car. Can I get a fitting that tees off of the PB fitting for this?
Follow up on the distributor.
I talked to Don Baker .I will ship the dist. to him today. I got email conformation from Lars that he does not do FI distributors.
Don has restored 3 FI distributors for me and they are all like, or probably better than new. My experience with Don has always been pleasant and positive. Perhaps some of the FI rebuilders that frequent the forum will chime in.
What I am hearing is that the oil pump needs to be replaced with a regular volume gear
There is a standard 40 psi pump with standard volume. There is a standard 60 psi pump, standard volume that came on the '64-'65 SHP sb's. There is also a 60 psi pump with high volume that DIDN"T come on sb's.
High volume may be your problem. I wouldn't think the high pressure would be if everything else is the way it's supposed to be. Your choice.
Mike
Thank you for the insight. I just now returned from the UPS store. Don should have the distributor on Friday. In our conversation we determined that it has the correct football,weights and housing. The VAC however is incorrect.
I am going to use my old mellings pump with the h/p spring.
I agree on the SWC/837 comment.
Don Baker called me Tuesday to discuss the condition of the dist.
He said that the top seal was installed backwards/upside down and never worked correctly.
There were a lot of other things wrong also, but I decided not to list them. We discussed the problems and I agreed to his full restoration. It should be ready in a month or so.
This also leaves the question in my mind as to weather I should replace the oil pump with a standard volume high pressure unit. I would appreciate some opinions on this.
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This also leaves the question in my mind as to weather I should replace the oil pump with a standard volume high pressure unit. I would appreciate some opinions on this.
Thanks in advance.
Over the years, there has been a LOT of debate and discussion over HV/HP oil pumps vs std pumps.
For over 40yrs I've installed a HV or HP pump in ALL my engines (including the granny grocery getter engines) with ZERO issues. If Chevy installed them back in the days of hi-perf, solid lifter engines, and they still are just fine, then I feel they are fine for my engines.
SOOOOOOOOOO, if I had your engine (and I don't), I'd leave the pump in it and go on down the road.
There may be some confusion about what is meant by a high volume oil pump versus a high pressure pump. You can combine the two features in one pump, but they aren't the same thing.
A high volume pump has gears that are 30 to 50 percent taller than a standard pump. It puts out a lot more oil at all speeds than a standard pump.
A high pressure pump has standard height gears but a stiffer relief valve spring. The relief valve seat pressure is higher with a stiffer spring. That means the pump will begin to put out more oil after the standard seat pressure is reached. The rpm at which the relief valve opens varies with engine bearing clearances, the weight oil you're using, and engine temperature.
I'm not aware of any GM assembly line engine that came with a high volume pump. However, GM did install high pressure pumps in many of its performance engines.
Since you already have a high volume oil pump in place, I suggest you leave it there. You can perform a simple test when you get your distributor back to determine if that pump is okay to keep. Just drive on the freeway for 10 miles at 75 mph. If your new distributor oil seal holds up and you don't pump your pan empty, then you're probably good to go.
I am quite aware of the difference between the two types of pumps.https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...s/biggrin5.gif
Based on the facts that Don Baker presented with the installation of the seal in the correct distributor being upside down and the 1961 distributor not leaking and the opinions I have received here I think I will leave the oil pump as is. Thank you all for your input.https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...s/thumbsup.gif
03-18-2017, 05:16 PM
Dist. rebuild for a 63 F I car
