Muncie experts .. oil slinger ques. .
#1
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Muncie experts .. oil slinger ques. .
Well, I just finished up the Muncie rebuild this past weekend. One thing I noticed is that in the exploded parts view of the Muncie trans it shows an oil slinger in place between the front bearing and input shaft. The parts description says the oil slinger fits 'all' Muncie's ..
When I removed the front bearing from the input shaft I didn't see any installed oil slinger. I'm sure this is the first time rebuild of this Muncie trans so I would have to assume that it came from the factory this way. Should there be an oil slinger on a '64 Muncie trans .. ? . .
Thanks ..
John
When I removed the front bearing from the input shaft I didn't see any installed oil slinger. I'm sure this is the first time rebuild of this Muncie trans so I would have to assume that it came from the factory this way. Should there be an oil slinger on a '64 Muncie trans .. ? . .
Thanks ..
John
#2
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Yes, an oil slinger fits all Muncies.
No, your 64 Muncie did not come with an oil slinger.
I'm not sure of the first year an oil slinger was installed. Some of the rebuild kits contain BOTH an oil slinger and a shim to go between the inpur gear and the input bearing. If a Muncie already has the oil slinger, then only add the shim. If it has neither shim or oil slinger, then add both (never use 2 slingers and a shim, it's too much). The kits which I am most familiar with are those from Larry Fischer of D and L Transmission. He is one of the best Muncie gurus in the country. I've been rebuilding Muncies for about 35yrs-----------and I still learn things from him.
No, your 64 Muncie did not come with an oil slinger.
I'm not sure of the first year an oil slinger was installed. Some of the rebuild kits contain BOTH an oil slinger and a shim to go between the inpur gear and the input bearing. If a Muncie already has the oil slinger, then only add the shim. If it has neither shim or oil slinger, then add both (never use 2 slingers and a shim, it's too much). The kits which I am most familiar with are those from Larry Fischer of D and L Transmission. He is one of the best Muncie gurus in the country. I've been rebuilding Muncies for about 35yrs-----------and I still learn things from him.
#5
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by DZAUTO
Yes, an oil slinger fits all Muncies.
No, your 64 Muncie did not come with an oil slinger.
I'm not sure of the first year an oil slinger was installed. Some of the rebuild kits contain BOTH an oil slinger and a shim to go between the inpur gear and the input bearing. If a Muncie already has the oil slinger, then only add the shim. If it has neither shim or oil slinger, then add both (never use 2 slingers and a shim, it's too much). The kits which I am most familiar with are those from Larry Fischer of D and L Transmission. He is one of the best Muncie gurus in the country. I've been rebuilding Muncies for about 35yrs-----------and I still learn things from him.
No, your 64 Muncie did not come with an oil slinger.
I'm not sure of the first year an oil slinger was installed. Some of the rebuild kits contain BOTH an oil slinger and a shim to go between the inpur gear and the input bearing. If a Muncie already has the oil slinger, then only add the shim. If it has neither shim or oil slinger, then add both (never use 2 slingers and a shim, it's too much). The kits which I am most familiar with are those from Larry Fischer of D and L Transmission. He is one of the best Muncie gurus in the country. I've been rebuilding Muncies for about 35yrs-----------and I still learn things from him.
John
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Here are a few links that may help:
http://www.5speeds.com/muncie.htm
http://www.pipersauto.com/4speeds.html
http://www.kajunjon.com/Main/
http://www.5speeds.com/muncie.htm
http://www.pipersauto.com/4speeds.html
http://www.kajunjon.com/Main/
#7
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John,
Yes, basically, you are correct. I NEVER rebuild a Muncie without installing a shim/slinger. This is one of the easiest as well as one of the best mods to do to a Muncie when rebuilding it.
If you haven't got your Muncie back together yet, email me and I will GIVE you a shim and slinger.
Yes, basically, you are correct. I NEVER rebuild a Muncie without installing a shim/slinger. This is one of the easiest as well as one of the best mods to do to a Muncie when rebuilding it.
If you haven't got your Muncie back together yet, email me and I will GIVE you a shim and slinger.
#8
Safety Car
Thread Starter
DZ,
Yes, I've got the Muncie back together enough so that the only thing left to do is bolt on the front bearing retainer. I didn't notice the oil slinger, at first, in the exploded parts view of the Muncie trans until after all was said and done with the rebuild. Not sure I want to break it apart at this point in order to get the input shaft out .. ? .. Thinking I'll live with it the way it is. Thanks for the offer of the oil slinger and shim. Much appreciated ! ..
John
Yes, I've got the Muncie back together enough so that the only thing left to do is bolt on the front bearing retainer. I didn't notice the oil slinger, at first, in the exploded parts view of the Muncie trans until after all was said and done with the rebuild. Not sure I want to break it apart at this point in order to get the input shaft out .. ? .. Thinking I'll live with it the way it is. Thanks for the offer of the oil slinger and shim. Much appreciated ! ..
John
#9
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by mrg
DZ,
Yes, I've got the Muncie back together enough so that the only thing left to do is bolt on the front bearing retainer. I didn't notice the oil slinger, at first, in the exploded parts view of the Muncie trans until after all was said and done with the rebuild. Not sure I want to break it apart at this point in order to get the input shaft out .. ? .. Thinking I'll live with it the way it is. Thanks for the offer of the oil slinger and shim. Much appreciated ! ..
John
Yes, I've got the Muncie back together enough so that the only thing left to do is bolt on the front bearing retainer. I didn't notice the oil slinger, at first, in the exploded parts view of the Muncie trans until after all was said and done with the rebuild. Not sure I want to break it apart at this point in order to get the input shaft out .. ? .. Thinking I'll live with it the way it is. Thanks for the offer of the oil slinger and shim. Much appreciated ! ..
John
As for the part not in the master rebuild kit, I don't know anyone who includes that, for a long time it just could not be had new. Now they are available for $2 or you can try and find the correct shim, took me forever to find an assortment of different thickness arbor shims that had the right ID and OD.
#10
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Thread Starter
I did try to remove the front bearing by itself without disassembling the main case by using 1/8" metal backing material underneath the snap ring - then tap the front end of the input shaft 'reasonably' with a bronze drift to see if the bearing would start to slide off. It didn't budge. I might try to heat the inner bearing race and try it again.
But, I might end up disassembling the main case anyway. I 'discovered' something else this morning .. ! .. The exploded parts view sheets of the Muncie I used for the rebuild were downloaded off the net, mainly because it was much clearer and larger - easier to see and understand the various parts, etc. ..
This morning I was browsing through the restoration package info that GM sent and was viewing the 1964 factory shop manual Muncie trans exploded parts view. Well, I hadn't noticed before but the cluster gear spacer/needle bearing arrangement is DIFFERENT than what was shown in the downloaded view I got from the net.! .. This is the spacer/needle bearing arrangement from the downloaded view I got from the net:
From front to rear................... thrust washer - SPACER - needle bearings - SPACER - needle bearings - SPACER - TUBE SPACER .. Then, the reverse order from the rear of the case back to the tube spacer.
The exploded view of the Muncie trans in the 1964 factory shop manual shows the arrangement this way:
From front to rear.................. thrust washer - SPACER - needle bearings - SPACER - SPACER - needle bearings - TUBE SPACER. Then, the same reverse order back to the tube spacer.
As you can see the difference is that there are two spacers together separating the needle bearings and none against the tube spacer. That's how it's shown in the 1964 shop manual view.
In both views 6 washers total are shown - it's just how they are arranged that is the difference.
I'm tempted to pull the main case and rearrange the spacer/needle bearings as shown in the '64 shop manual view. I'm wondering if the later model Muncie's might have had the different spacer/needle bearing arrangement and if that is why the downloaded view shows them set up this way .. ? .. Also, a downloadable 'how-to' disassembly/assembly document stated to arrange the spacer/needle bearings in the way that differed from the '64 shop manual.
Since both arrangements seem to be 'correct' should it matter which arrangement is used .. ? ..
John
But, I might end up disassembling the main case anyway. I 'discovered' something else this morning .. ! .. The exploded parts view sheets of the Muncie I used for the rebuild were downloaded off the net, mainly because it was much clearer and larger - easier to see and understand the various parts, etc. ..
This morning I was browsing through the restoration package info that GM sent and was viewing the 1964 factory shop manual Muncie trans exploded parts view. Well, I hadn't noticed before but the cluster gear spacer/needle bearing arrangement is DIFFERENT than what was shown in the downloaded view I got from the net.! .. This is the spacer/needle bearing arrangement from the downloaded view I got from the net:
From front to rear................... thrust washer - SPACER - needle bearings - SPACER - needle bearings - SPACER - TUBE SPACER .. Then, the reverse order from the rear of the case back to the tube spacer.
The exploded view of the Muncie trans in the 1964 factory shop manual shows the arrangement this way:
From front to rear.................. thrust washer - SPACER - needle bearings - SPACER - SPACER - needle bearings - TUBE SPACER. Then, the same reverse order back to the tube spacer.
As you can see the difference is that there are two spacers together separating the needle bearings and none against the tube spacer. That's how it's shown in the 1964 shop manual view.
In both views 6 washers total are shown - it's just how they are arranged that is the difference.
I'm tempted to pull the main case and rearrange the spacer/needle bearings as shown in the '64 shop manual view. I'm wondering if the later model Muncie's might have had the different spacer/needle bearing arrangement and if that is why the downloaded view shows them set up this way .. ? .. Also, a downloadable 'how-to' disassembly/assembly document stated to arrange the spacer/needle bearings in the way that differed from the '64 shop manual.
Since both arrangements seem to be 'correct' should it matter which arrangement is used .. ? ..
John
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John,
NO, NO, NO, don't take it apart! The first one is correct. the second one is for a B-W T-10.
You got it right the first time if you have thrust washer-spacer-needles-spacer-needles-spacer-tube. The Muncie has a tube with a split, thus, it needs to have the spacer between the tube and needles. Whereas a T-10 has a solid tube and doesn't need the spacer between the tube and needles.
Also, sometimes those front bearings are a little tight, but if you can get it to start, then you can usually get it to come off. The way you were going about it is fine. Just tap a little harder with your brass drift.
NO, NO, NO, don't take it apart! The first one is correct. the second one is for a B-W T-10.
You got it right the first time if you have thrust washer-spacer-needles-spacer-needles-spacer-tube. The Muncie has a tube with a split, thus, it needs to have the spacer between the tube and needles. Whereas a T-10 has a solid tube and doesn't need the spacer between the tube and needles.
Also, sometimes those front bearings are a little tight, but if you can get it to start, then you can usually get it to come off. The way you were going about it is fine. Just tap a little harder with your brass drift.
#12
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Yes, that's the order I used - spacer washer next to the tube spacer. BTW, the Fig. 5M "Four-Speed Transmission-Exploded View" factory manual sheet didn't specify which transmission this view referenced but the parts, etc., sure looked like the Muncie to my eye.! ..
I'll try again to get that front bearing off. Maybe a little added heat to the inner race will help coax it off . .
Thanks, DZ ..
John
I'll try again to get that front bearing off. Maybe a little added heat to the inner race will help coax it off . .
Thanks, DZ ..
John