how to spot a real 78 Pace Car vs a clone?
11-29-2005, 08:00 PM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
how to spot a real 78 Pace Car vs a clone?
My brother has found a car the is supposedly a '78 Pace Car.
Suspicion #1 there is no VIN sticker on the dash visible thru the windshield. The seller has provided a paper copy of a Goverment Document to show the VIN #.... it shows the correct sequence 9xxxxx for it to be a Pace car I know the date tag also needs to show a mid march to mid May build date, but the tag is essentially illegible.
Should there be a VIN tag on the dash? Where else can he find the VIN #
Where should the RPO sticker be located? I know the RPO code for the Pace car as well, but we don't know where to find the sticker ...
Suspicion #2 The original engine was an L48 that has been replaced with an L82. What engine options were available? the reading I have done says tht these cars were bascially fully equipped. I would b esurprised they carried the lower HP L48?
Suspicion #3 it has been repainted. so anyone could make it look correct...
Are there other tell tale differences visible under the hood or with the car on a hoist? I am familiar with C4's and C5's so I know about differences like different springs, larger sway bar diameters, oil coolers, lock to lock turn differences on the steering wheel...
But I don't know what to look for in a C3 Pace car vs base model.
What should we look for to authenticate this vehicle as a Pace Car or dismiss it as a clone?
Thanks
rich
Suspicion #1 there is no VIN sticker on the dash visible thru the windshield. The seller has provided a paper copy of a Goverment Document to show the VIN #.... it shows the correct sequence 9xxxxx for it to be a Pace car I know the date tag also needs to show a mid march to mid May build date, but the tag is essentially illegible.
Should there be a VIN tag on the dash? Where else can he find the VIN #
Where should the RPO sticker be located? I know the RPO code for the Pace car as well, but we don't know where to find the sticker ...
Suspicion #2 The original engine was an L48 that has been replaced with an L82. What engine options were available? the reading I have done says tht these cars were bascially fully equipped. I would b esurprised they carried the lower HP L48?
Suspicion #3 it has been repainted. so anyone could make it look correct...
Are there other tell tale differences visible under the hood or with the car on a hoist? I am familiar with C4's and C5's so I know about differences like different springs, larger sway bar diameters, oil coolers, lock to lock turn differences on the steering wheel...
But I don't know what to look for in a C3 Pace car vs base model.
What should we look for to authenticate this vehicle as a Pace Car or dismiss it as a clone?
Thanks
rich
11-29-2005, 09:18 PM
#2
Safety Car
Hello,
Check the seats. The 78 Pace Car had the same seats as the 79 and higher models. The regular 78 Corvette had the same seats as the 77 and lower models.
The Pace Car seats should be hinged about 1/3 of the way up the seat back. The regular seats are hinged at the bottom where they meet the seat bottom.
Any car can be repainted silver and black. It doesnt make it a pace car. Also, if the engine is replaced, then it may degrade its collectablility of being an original pace car.
What about the rest of the interior? Is it silver in color. Maybe there is a possibility that this was a Silver Anniversary 78 vette, which would have the same style seats. And then was painted the pace car colors.
The 78 Pace Car was available with the L48 engine.
"This particular car has the base L48/350 engine with 185 horsepower, although the optional L82 350 with 220 horsepower was available.."
You may also see if the car has an 8 track tape player. Apparently this was an option for 1978, but was included in all Pace Cars.
"Buyers also had to endure a selection of "forced RPOs" (items installed at the factory whether wanted or not).
The mandatory extras included power windows, air conditioning, sport mirrors, a tilt-telescope steering wheel, a rear defogger, an AM/FM stereo with either an 8-track tape player or CB radio, plus power door locks, and a heavy-duty battery. "
kdf
Check the seats. The 78 Pace Car had the same seats as the 79 and higher models. The regular 78 Corvette had the same seats as the 77 and lower models.
The Pace Car seats should be hinged about 1/3 of the way up the seat back. The regular seats are hinged at the bottom where they meet the seat bottom.
Any car can be repainted silver and black. It doesnt make it a pace car. Also, if the engine is replaced, then it may degrade its collectablility of being an original pace car.
What about the rest of the interior? Is it silver in color. Maybe there is a possibility that this was a Silver Anniversary 78 vette, which would have the same style seats. And then was painted the pace car colors.
The 78 Pace Car was available with the L48 engine.
"This particular car has the base L48/350 engine with 185 horsepower, although the optional L82 350 with 220 horsepower was available.."
You may also see if the car has an 8 track tape player. Apparently this was an option for 1978, but was included in all Pace Cars.
"Buyers also had to endure a selection of "forced RPOs" (items installed at the factory whether wanted or not).
The mandatory extras included power windows, air conditioning, sport mirrors, a tilt-telescope steering wheel, a rear defogger, an AM/FM stereo with either an 8-track tape player or CB radio, plus power door locks, and a heavy-duty battery. "
kdf
11-29-2005, 09:26 PM
#4
Drifting
Member Since: Mar 2005
Location: Burlington WI
Posts: 1,806
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The VIN tag is on the drivers side window post.
Stand next to the car and look through the windshield it is about in the middle.
Stand next to the car and look through the windshield it is about in the middle.
Last edited by fl_rider; 11-29-2005 at 10:16 PM.
11-29-2005, 09:59 PM
#5
Race Director
Thread Starter
sorry , do you mean looking through the windshield or the drivers door window?
Are you talking about the "A" pillar windshield post ahead of door, or the "B" pillar that supports the roof and the rear window, behind the drivers door?
Are you talking about the "A" pillar windshield post ahead of door, or the "B" pillar that supports the roof and the rear window, behind the drivers door?
11-29-2005, 10:14 PM
#6
Safety Car
Member Since: Jun 2004
Location: Beecher Illinois
Posts: 4,236
Likes: 0
Received 170 Likes
on
137 Posts
Originally Posted by rws.1
I know the date tag also needs to show a mid march to mid May build date, but the tag is essentially illegible.
rich
rich
Glass tops were standard but of course could have been added. Look for a date code on the tops. I believe NJ, XJ, or LJ would fall into the production period.(Mine are XJ, Pace Car no. 0009). Most of the glass tops in 78 went to the Pace Cars.
Special Edition plate on the console, but again could be added later.
Polished wheels with the red stripe? Clone might not have bothered with this detail.
I'll try to think of some more details.
Mike
11-29-2005, 10:16 PM
#7
Safety Car
Member Since: Jun 2004
Location: Beecher Illinois
Posts: 4,236
Likes: 0
Received 170 Likes
on
137 Posts
Originally Posted by rws.1
sorry , do you mean looking through the windshield or the drivers door window?
Are you talking about the "A" pillar windshield post ahead of door, or the "B" pillar that supports the roof and the rear window, behind the drivers door?
Are you talking about the "A" pillar windshield post ahead of door, or the "B" pillar that supports the roof and the rear window, behind the drivers door?
The following users liked this post:
diverrick (07-22-2023)
11-29-2005, 10:24 PM
#8
Drifting
Member Since: Jan 2005
Location: Seabrook Texas
Posts: 1,378
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
St. Jude Donor '05
Since I own one I will help you out.
1. last 6 of the vin# between 900001 and 906502 and is located midway down on the driver side A pillar.
2. Pace cars had a silver interior and the 79 and later bucket seats.
3. Stickers were optional dealer installed.
4. L48 motors were available
5. I believe all had the Gymkana suspension
My main concern is the engine swap. Even if it was a L48 the non origional engine kills the value.
1. last 6 of the vin# between 900001 and 906502 and is located midway down on the driver side A pillar.
2. Pace cars had a silver interior and the 79 and later bucket seats.
3. Stickers were optional dealer installed.
4. L48 motors were available
5. I believe all had the Gymkana suspension
My main concern is the engine swap. Even if it was a L48 the non origional engine kills the value.
11-29-2005, 11:21 PM
#10
Safety Car
Originally Posted by kdf1986
Hello,
Check the seats. The 78 Pace Car had the same seats as the 79 and higher models. The regular 78 Corvette had the same seats as the 77 and lower models.
The Pace Car seats should be hinged about 1/3 of the way up the seat back. The regular seats are hinged at the bottom where they meet the seat bottom.
Any car can be repainted silver and black. It doesnt make it a pace car. Also, if the engine is replaced, then it may degrade its collectablility of being an original pace car.
What about the rest of the interior? Is it silver in color. Maybe there is a possibility that this was a Silver Anniversary 78 vette, which would have the same style seats. And then was painted the pace car colors.
The 78 Pace Car was available with the L48 engine.
"This particular car has the base L48/350 engine with 185 horsepower, although the optional L82 350 with 220 horsepower was available.."
You may also see if the car has an 8 track tape player. Apparently this was an option for 1978, but was included in all Pace Cars.
"Buyers also had to endure a selection of "forced RPOs" (items installed at the factory whether wanted or not).
The mandatory extras included power windows, air conditioning, sport mirrors, a tilt-telescope steering wheel, a rear defogger, an AM/FM stereo with either an 8-track tape player or CB radio, plus power door locks, and a heavy-duty battery. "
kdf
Check the seats. The 78 Pace Car had the same seats as the 79 and higher models. The regular 78 Corvette had the same seats as the 77 and lower models.
The Pace Car seats should be hinged about 1/3 of the way up the seat back. The regular seats are hinged at the bottom where they meet the seat bottom.
Any car can be repainted silver and black. It doesnt make it a pace car. Also, if the engine is replaced, then it may degrade its collectablility of being an original pace car.
What about the rest of the interior? Is it silver in color. Maybe there is a possibility that this was a Silver Anniversary 78 vette, which would have the same style seats. And then was painted the pace car colors.
The 78 Pace Car was available with the L48 engine.
"This particular car has the base L48/350 engine with 185 horsepower, although the optional L82 350 with 220 horsepower was available.."
You may also see if the car has an 8 track tape player. Apparently this was an option for 1978, but was included in all Pace Cars.
"Buyers also had to endure a selection of "forced RPOs" (items installed at the factory whether wanted or not).
The mandatory extras included power windows, air conditioning, sport mirrors, a tilt-telescope steering wheel, a rear defogger, an AM/FM stereo with either an 8-track tape player or CB radio, plus power door locks, and a heavy-duty battery. "
kdf
11-29-2005, 11:46 PM
#11
Safety Car
Member Since: Jun 2004
Location: Beecher Illinois
Posts: 4,236
Likes: 0
Received 170 Likes
on
137 Posts
Originally Posted by rws.1
I know the date tag also needs to show a mid march to mid May build date, but the tag is essentially illegible.rich
If it IS in fact missing the VIN tag on the pillar I'd walk away from it. See the thread about someone else here with that problem.
Gymkhana was an option.
Mike
11-30-2005, 02:40 PM
#12
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Dec 2004
Location: pr, frederick md.
Posts: 2,161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
just check the vin serial #. the pace cars had their own #'s
check for fiberglass spoilers. originals are plastic, and the front one is 3 piece unit. most aftermarket ones are 1 piece. the seats can be faked from later yr. models. check that the interior hasnt been painted or dyed.( pull back the seat cushion from the plastic back piece/support )
check for fiberglass spoilers. originals are plastic, and the front one is 3 piece unit. most aftermarket ones are 1 piece. the seats can be faked from later yr. models. check that the interior hasnt been painted or dyed.( pull back the seat cushion from the plastic back piece/support )
11-30-2005, 07:10 PM
#13
Race Director
Thread Starter
Guys,
thanks for all the things to look for.
Found the VIN tag and checked for all the sugggested items...
Conclusion... It is a Silver Anniversay repainted to look like a Pace Car...
When pushed on it... the owner conceded he knew that.....
Hmmm being armed with a little knowledge sure helped my brother...
He is now deciding whether to pursue this car albeit at a significantly lower price point.
thanks for all your help...
thanks for all the things to look for.
Found the VIN tag and checked for all the sugggested items...
Conclusion... It is a Silver Anniversay repainted to look like a Pace Car...
When pushed on it... the owner conceded he knew that.....
Hmmm being armed with a little knowledge sure helped my brother...
He is now deciding whether to pursue this car albeit at a significantly lower price point.
thanks for all your help...
11-30-2005, 07:30 PM
#14
Safety Car
Member Since: Dec 2004
Location: Jersey Shore Exit 98
Posts: 4,876
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the price is right and the car is in very good shape, who cares if its a clone or not. Pace cars are 
besides more then half the GTO's on the streets are clones and they are all . as long as you know and don't try to sell it as a pace car no harm done.
besides more then half the GTO's on the streets are clones and they are all . as long as you know and don't try to sell it as a pace car no harm done.
Last edited by Jims79; 11-30-2005 at 07:31 PM. Reason: Pace Car
11-30-2005, 07:43 PM
#15
Race Director
Member Since: May 2003
Location: Science Bitch! Mississauga, Ontario
Posts: 11,814
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
7 Posts
Canadian Events Coordinator
Originally Posted by swtato
My main concern is the engine swap. Even if it was a L48 the non origional engine kills the value.
Anything is only worth what people make it out to be.
Everything should be free.
11-30-2005, 09:02 PM
#16
Team Owner
It really wouldn't bother me too much tht the car is not an original pace car replica... after all, even the "real" pace cars were replicas, and the $$ spent on cloning were probably more than the increase in value.
But this part would bother me a lot, and I would walk away from the seller:
But this part would bother me a lot, and I would walk away from the seller:
Originally Posted by rws.1
It is a Silver Anniversay repainted to look like a Pace Car...
When pushed on it... the owner conceded he knew that.....
When pushed on it... the owner conceded he knew that.....
12-01-2005, 10:46 AM
#17
Safety Car
Moosie
thanks for helping me with the Silver Anniversary seats. So the pace car is the only one with the 79 and up type of seats then. That should help to make it easier to see if the car is real or not. Unless they found a set of silver 79 and up seats to put in of course.
kdf
thanks for helping me with the Silver Anniversary seats. So the pace car is the only one with the 79 and up type of seats then. That should help to make it easier to see if the car is real or not. Unless they found a set of silver 79 and up seats to put in of course.
kdf
12-01-2005, 12:49 PM
#18
Melting Slicks
I have alot of fun with my clone of a 78 Pace Car Replica... My vette is a 1981 with all the Pace Car goodies and custom paint. But I never tell people it's a real Pace Car. I always say its a Pace Car Replica or clone. But it's still a fun car, you really don't see many (or should I say any) on the road.
