international blue

On another thread there was a comment, that while accepted by many is a distortion of the reality of our current Corvette Market.

The facts of last year are very simple in rough numbers.

There were over 4000 registered bidders.

There were 1100 cars.

So 75% of the people leave with nothing, and thats if the winner restricts to buying one car. A guy I know bought 4!

The registered bidders had around 500 MILLION dollars in verified credit lines secured before the auction.

Regardless of how much money you or I have, the entry of new money changes the "capitalization" of the market. To use Friedman's framework, the increasing supply of money is being divided into around the same amount of cars. The addition of new cars is slowed by the drying up of supply of wrecks and rebuilders. The increasing flow of new people who are "changed" by Barrett Jackson and RM and others are simply being processed there. They are brought to BJ or RM by seeing the cars in shows or on Club outings. If everyone was having no fun at all, these things would be worth what used SUV's are worth.

I was in Monterey for 4 auctions and the races this August. I saw 6 cars go for a million plus EACH in an hour and a half. (no vettes) Reggie Jackson turned down $190,000 for his 68 L89 roadster. They made 624 of these, but how many are left? Once the word goes out that probably 400 are left in total, with about 80 NCRS perfect and only a few in the "right" color for the buyer, what do you think I can get from the top 500 buyers in the country with lots of spare cash? C3 convert projects are going away, and starting to be worth close to $10000. A perfect C3 L88 is 300K. Try and find a C2 convert under 20K in project form.

There are deals to be had out there, but thats for us. A no fuss buyer will spend $80,000 on a perfect 69 Z-28 restoration and remark that its less money than he spent on the BMW or new Porsche he drives to work every day. Thats the reality.

Barrett Jackson is a verification of value

rihwoods

Barrett Jackson verifies those with huge credit lines will throw big money at a car just to satistfy either their ego or to "flip" it for profit or both....case in point is how much the Mopars went for in the bidding...
Barrett Jackson is unique in that respect,and has caused artificial inflated prices across the market...

Rich

early shark

BJ isn't the only place where records were being set. If you go onto several of the musclecar web sites, prices for muscle cars are reaching new heights whether it's in the asking price or selling price.

My personal opinion is that the performance years of the C3, meaning the '68 thru '72 high performance optioned models are undervalued compared to other makes and models. Why this is, I don't really understand.

A couple of examples, currently the early second gen Camaros are beginning to get noticed and prices are rising quickly. A '70 Camaro Z28 with docs now are selling in the high forties. Here is a car that uses a high performance small block engine (not technically called LT-1), built 8,773 units, Camaro enthusiasts love to refer to this power plant as an LT-1, it is not. This engine uses a dual snorkel air cleaner housing, uses the log style exhaust manifold design, does not use a Magnetic Pulse Transistorized Ignition system. A '70 Corvette with the optional LT-1 engine has a production quantity of 1,287 and is approximately 6.82 times as rare, or about 15% of the Camaro build, yet the Corvette will sell for a similar amount.

A '69 C.O.P.O or Yenko Camaro will fetch prices in the $225,000 range in nice documented condition. Here is a car that comes with a L72 engine. Production quantity is pretty well known for Yenkos, however COPO production is not substantiated, guesses are anywhere from 800 to 1,000 units. These cars do use some heavy duty pieces such as HD cooling, HD rear axles, HD suspension, but they also come with the M21 trans (some do have M22's) and use conventional ignition systems. The Corvette was built with the L88 option, which included as mandatory equipment, HD cooling, HD brakes, HD suspension, HD trans, HD ignition, the L88 option was much more special and unique in its components than the L72 option in the Camaro, and production of the L88 is known and quite a bit more rare, yet you can acquire a Corvette L88 for around the same price. Why?

You can continue to cite examples, whether it be SD Firebirds, RAM IV GTO's, Stage 1 GSX's, W30 442's, etc. Corvettes that seem to be similar in rarity & performance just seem to be a better buy pricewise.

rihwoods

Here is a twist to the "Barrett Jackson" influence...I was at a car show last August where everyone was "buzzing" about it...and there was a guy there who threw a fit because his 1957 Thunderbird did not trophy and he stated it should have because he paid $110,000 for it at Barrett Jackson last January....he even went around criticizing other T-Birds in his class ...so the "influence" is out there,and many are asking ridiculous prices as a result...

Edit: It was THIS car,BTW...

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/aucti....asp?id=181425

You can just see it next to my buds red 63...



Rich

robertmc48

I've been to the auction. Some of the best cars in the world are there and you will never see a better car show. I don't care about the prices. I'm not looking to buy anything anyway.

John Ulrich

Nice T-bird!
The owner's apparently on a learning curve that all shows are not equally fair.
I like the "I paid more so I get the bigger trophy mentality"

I love hearing the cries that the market is unfair because I cannot afford an XYZ toy because the richer guys are paying more then they should. Try dealing with the seller with the angle that you are disadvantaged and deserve to pay $20,000 less than market rate
JU

onaqwst

i'll sell my 77 for 50,000...shyt, that would pay for grad school...then i would build another just like the first then flip that.....then flip that...... there's a buyer for everything......

it's like architecture....it's just a rich man's hobby.....

but well known architects cant afford to build/buy a house that they design....go figure


b

BBShark

I go every year. It's the best car show on the planet.

panchop

same here. Don't forget a lot of those bidders never bid on a thing. I just get the bidders pass for the parking, access and free bar. Oh and just incase a real deal comes across the block. Don't laugh, I've seen a few steals late sunday afternoon.

427-390

He buys a car for 110K, then complains about not winning a $5 or $10.00 trophy? He could probably buy and make up a whole buncha trophies that say he won 1st prize at whatever event he wants. BTW, it's an ugly color. No wonder he lost. What a putz.

bondoboy

BJ is the reason the hobby has gotten out of hand. Joe blow sees a 69 copo camaro sell for $500,000 on BJ and he figures his rusted out 6 cylinder camaro should be worth at least $75,000. It drives up the cost of regular cars and the restoration parts as well. Most of the crazy bidding is done by rich guys for fun and bragging rights.

vettebuyer6369

It is an absolute great time. I love going.

Some of the cars aren't all that terrific when you get up close. B/J doesn't verify much. There are good buys early in the week.

And, the artificial aspect of the B/J's effect on the market is that those silly prices are good for about 3 days in January. Whenever I hear a seller get all full of himself because of some retarded B/J reference, I tell him to put in his application, get in line and see if he gets to sell there next year.

Bangkok Dean

Don't Blame Barrett Jackson


Blame Jessy

Restorod '79

It's not the auction that's the problem, it's the TV hype. They really play up the big money cars that fetch the big bids. Out of curiosity I printed out all the sales for the Scottsdale event- there were some really nice cars that went across the block for reasonable prices early on. I remember seeing a couple of C-3 vettes @ 14 -17 K, and they had to be nice to make the cut for that event.
Having said that, I do feel that the hype has affected the average guy who wants to now sell his 6 cyl. Camaro for three times what it's worth!
The tough part for us wrenchers is that some putz who wants to be seen in one of these cars will pay it!

djcwardog

Around here we have Fast Lane Classics over in St Charles, MO. There are a few other places up the road from St Louis on the way to Chicago. Where else can you see a 1978 Pontiac Trans Am in dark blue - looks real nice - for only $20,000? Just a bit high? I stop in there once in awhile if I have business nearby. For your stroll down memory lane, admission is free and you can look at maybe a hundred cars in a pair of big showrooms. Plus, they have a great gift shop with lots of muscle car books, models, repros of old signs, etc... I don't know if they ever sell a car for their asking prices (which are shockingly high), but the resto paint jobs look pretty good. They did have an admitted clone 426-Hemi Mopar for $160,000... To mirror other comments on this thread, they had a few C3's for expected starting prices in the hands of a private seller who needs to drop 20% to make a sale - not outrageously priced in other words. It's the Camaros, Firebirds, Mustangs...and especially the Mopars that are really high in that place. On the other end of the spectrum, a buddy of mine won a gold 1978 Firebird Esprit (think Jim Rockford's car) on ebay from a St Louis seller. I went and picked up the car and did some work on it so when he flew in from Washington DC he could drive it home. I did a tune-up, belts and brakes all the way around - he paid for parts. He has under $4,000 in the car and his wife and small boys love it! You can still find the dreams out there...

Midwest Muscle

Those guys at Fast Lane turn quite a few cars - They sold 304 in 2004, and 297 in 2005. Considering the profit they are able to get, that's not a bad day's work!

I've made some pretty decent profits on cars I've owned, and I've never felt guilty about it. Compared to all the money I've lost building them in the earlier years, I like to think it's just balancing itself out!

I agree with the earlier comment about BJ being affected by television cameras. If Craig has ever had a great idea, knowing that egos would bloom when the cameras started rolling was probably the best ever.

Mike M

John Ulrich

Great story!!!!
Instead of crying about how unfair the world is because of the price pressure on midyear Vettes. Find something that fits your wallet and enjoy it. Lots of value still out there. Street Rodders priced out of the popular body styles imbraced Station Wagons and a whole new low dollar (buy-in) rage took off.....the whole family could now travel together!
JU

birdsmith

Barrett-Jackson isn't the reason old car prices are high- the insanely devaluing dollar is. To me the greatest evidence that our currency is being inflated grossly is the fact that you never hear about it on the news or read about it in the papers anymore (except of course in the ridiculously conservative 'consumer price index' quotes). To regurgitate, the cost of a house where I live in most of SoCal has nearly tripled in the last ten years, and even though supplies appear plentiful a barrel of oil that sold for $10 American ten years ago is now hovering routinely at or over $60. That's not the fault of some car auctioneer- it's the ages-old trick of our government trying to fool us into believing we're wealthier than we really are by flooding the planet with our money. Old musclecar prices have risen somewhat disproportionately to those of other items, but that's mostly due to the fact that new cars just don't seem to have the 'soul' that our beloved '60's behemoths do. Things are kind of frightening nowadays and people are willing to pay a hefty chunk of change to try and buy a tire-smoking reminder of the days when America was king and not the whining, whimpering politically correct utopia that it has degenerated into today IMHO.

standup

Have you read a copy of Hemmings Motor News lately ????? There are plenty of wrecks and rebuilders, along with a lot of nice cars, all of them with over inflated selling prices......

.....in fact, I think that guy Friedman is trying to sell a '71 Chevy C10 pickup for 26k

Don't blame Barrett Jackson ???? Well, let's not exonerate them either....they're fueling the investor fad.....making it very difficult for an average wage earner to tinker with a cool car

Midwest Muscle

Standup, you've made a good point. The average Joe can't touch many of these cars now. I've been doing this as a hobby for 20 years, and lately I find myself dealing with people talking about money/appreciation, and not the car they are actually buying.

Given a choice, I like to work with wrenchers and hobbyists. But 75% of calls I get on my collector cars are from people looking to make some money - Not actually enjoy the cars. But I suppose that could be the pot calling the kettle black since I don't drive mine for fear of losing money.

I guess I'm on the fence on this one now that I think about it!

Mike M