C2C6Z06

Well, looking at the body (now off the frame), I am seeing a number of steel brackets that, although not rusty, could use refinishing to add that degree of "clean." Most of these little parts are riveted on at the factory.

I was wondering if I should just paint in place or remove and (choose one pop rivet or solid rivet them back on after blasting and painting???

If I use rivets, how do I tell what kind of pop rivets or solid rivets I should get?

I know its a lot more work to take them off, but I have time.

There seem to be several rivet threads but none seem to match what I'm looking for...

Easy Mike

Leave them in place. Why do work you don't honestly have to do?

C2C6Z06

Grew up with an old quote: "If there is an easier way of doing this, don't tell me - I enjoy suffering!" Seriously, I am using this 73 as a learning restore for my early 63 SWC. So, whatever I can learn (and screw up) here, I'd rather do it on this one...

Easy Mike

Leave them on the 63 too.



Seriously. Are you intending to have either car judged? If so, you will want to research the correct factory finishes on these brackets and attempt to restore the finishes. Most of these brackets were not painted, but there could be exceptions. Ditto for the underbody; most were not painted but could show evidence of factory sound deadener.

Next is the rivet issue. Pop rivets were usually not used. A judge will spot an out of place pop rivet in a heart beat.

The NCRS Technical Information and Judging Guides (63 and 73) will list several of the factory finishes, describe rivets and fasteners, etc.

For judging purposes, a beautifully over restored car is likely to cost you points.

http://www.ncrs.org/

Good luck.

Alan 71

Hi c,
To do a really nice job I think the brackets need to come off.
It's a lot more work, so it depends on what knid of car you want have when you're finshed.
The flat aluminium rivets are readily available, and easy to set; but usually take two people to do it.
Regards,
Alan

C2C6Z06

Mike and Alan, thanks for the replies. I do not intend to have ether car judged but want to show them in local events and to be proud of my work. So, I think the brackets will come off (and will drive my wife crazy) get refinished and riveted on with the right rivets. I set off for the NCRS book of finishes and fasteners.

I saw a recent thread on rivet guns and will go the extra ($200) mile and get a tool that will make life easier...

Alan 71

Hi C,
CAREFUL!
The recent thread, I BELIEVE, was about a tool to set tubular and semi-tubular rivets. A different situation.
Setting the soft flat aluminium rivets used MANY places on the body is a cheaper, easier procedure, but often requires 2 people because you need to have someone on each end of the rivet.
I took ALL the brackets, clips, etc. off my 71's body. It only took about an hour or two to put them all back on.
Regards,
Alan

7T1vette

Use a wire brush wheel on a power drill to knock off all rust/crud from the area. If needed, put engine degreaser on it as well. Once cleaned, apply a 'rust converter' if you have remaining surface rust; or you can shoot a bare metal primer (Dupli-Color 'self etching' primer...similar to zinc chromate primer) on it for protection before applying top coat.

Go with semi-gloss black for top coat. You can use POR for a permanent (but troublesome) finish; or you can just use Rustoleum with a brush, for good protection with a low price tag. If the car will see harsh winter conditions and/or salt, go with the POR paint.

68/70Vette

I believe some good sources for these body brackets are Volunteer Vettes and of course Paragon. Some other sponsors might well have these parts.
For these obscure body parts, I obviously haven't contacted all the corvette vendors, but in my very limited experience, these two vendors have went out of their way to help me.

For used body parts, I have used J & D Corvettes in Bellflower, Ca. They're good folks to deal with.

C2C6Z06

I am thinking it would be easier to refinish these brackets with them out due to some tight spaces. Also, it would ensure the backs are rust free.

Alan, I am thinking of the solid alum rivets to re-attach them, but most of the front bracket are on by pop rivets - I am wondering if they are not already replaced from factory..

I think I saw pop rivets with a solid head. they look like solid rivets but with the ease of pops...whatcha all think on these???

I suppose I need a good lesson on riveting...

7T1vette

I'm not aware of any support structure hardware that is pop-riveted to the car. And, if those brackets have 'solid' rivets, then pop-rivets are no substitute.

If that is the case...and you don't have a good working knowledge of how solid rivets are installed (correctly), I suggest that you figure out the best way to refinish them in the car.

C2C6Z06

That's what I love about these forums, the guidance to learn....I will learn riveting, take the brackets out, refinish them and reinstall them like new....

7T1vette

OK, then...here's the 'primer' on riveting:

A correctly installed rivet does not merely get headed over to hold the various pieces together. The rivet material must be plastically deformed --inside the joint--to completely fill any open space or void in that joint, so that there is a completely solid metal joint formed with that process.

So, if you don't have the means to apply the kind of pressure needed to cause that rivet to 'fill' the hole, you should not be attempting to re-rivet that joint. To do it properly, you need a press of adequate size and the proper heading tooling to cause that rivet to fill and to head it as needed.

That is why I would never recommend separating a riveted assembly unless it absolutely could not be serviced by any other method.

Good luck with your project.

C2C6Z06

Excellent info, I sort of figured that was the important part from what I have seen over the years - rivets are not meant to be taken out.

What do you think about those 4X air rivet guns with the different bits? might that be good for these cars or is there more force needed?

Alan 71

Hi,
Some, but relatively few, brackets were installed in St. Louis with pop type rivets. Examples are the brackets used in 69 to mount the under body heat shielding. I believe that if there was access to both sides of the installation at that point in production a set rivet was used.
I think, now, the method used to set the flat rivets really depends whether the person has access to air tools or not.
I've seen the large flat head pop-rivets. They still have a hole in their head so are not suitable if the finished appearance matters.
Regards,
Alan

hunt4cleanair

I've been following this discussion and have an interesting dilemma for a 78 Pace Car front spoiler assembly. This if off a pace car that, I believe, was road raced or something. A metal bracket was fabricated and attached to the fiberglass spoiler end piece. The bracket is probably 12" long and 3/4" wide and twisted to conform to the end spoiler piece that wraps around the nose. Spoilers were three piece, ends and center.

so the bracket is riveted on a lip of the spoiler end than bolts to the nose through the body fiberglass. It also has welded nuts that were used to bolt to the body. The rivets had broken apart so when the spoiler was removed from the body, the bracket fell out.

I was wondering if the bracket could be refabricated. The fiberglass spoiler also has some of the holes cracked and pieces but I'm thinking those could be rebuilt.

C2C6Z06

Well, I went to a rivet supply place Friday. Learned a lot and still have questions. One thing I am still amazed and confused over is the rivet guy told me the large flat head rivets with the rounded over end for the brackets start with the rounded end manufactured and the large flat head is what is formed when the rivets are installed!

I thought it was the opposite. The large round head is manufactured and the smaller (metal side) rounded head was formed by installation....

Any comments? I'm thinking that because of the soft aluminum rivets used in the fiberglass, something is different than say aircraft applications...

PUNISHER VETTE

I'm in sort of the same boat. Except mine needed to come off for rust removal and even new body mounts and seat belt mounts.


I saw a thread a while back about using SS button head screws and lock washers from Fasenal, which is what I ended up going with.

I found it very hard to get my rivet gun in to some of the places I needed to and then it looked weird on the inside with the pop rivets.

So if you're going to rivet get the stock ones and whatever tool it takes to set them...

GUSTO14

I suspect he is mistaken or simply confused about the rivets used on these cars. Here is what the rivets look like before they are installed...


Clearly the rivets have flat heads before they are installed. They are available in different lengths and even different head sizes from many of the Corvette venders.
https://www.paragoncorvette.com/c-22...aspx?pagenum=2

The rivets can be installed with an adapter on an air chisel and a helper holding a block of steel against the opposite side (against the flat head). It is not a lot of fun and can be difficult to get to in some places, but it can be done.

The purpose of most of these brackets is to spread the load over a larger area of fiberglass by sandwiching the fiberglass between two pieces of metal, such as the seat frame and the underfloor reinforcement. The good news is that most of these brackets are essentially only being held in place by the rivets in order to install the bolts that hold the seats (etc) in the car. For this reason almost any reasonable means of fastening them in the car will do, such as a flathead machine screw and nut or even a pop rivet. Something that doesn't otherwise interfere with the purpose of the reinforcement.

This is the case for almost any of the reinforcements riveted to the body... except the #4 body mount reinforcement. This one is much more of a structural member and therefore more care must be used in fastening it to the body, should you need to remove or replace an old one.

By the way, I removed all of the reinforcements from the body of my '63 that is going through a complete restoration, primarily to do a more thorough job. My intent was to simply bead blast the parts, prime and paint them and reuse them. What I discovered upon removing and bead blasting them was that most had rusted extensively from the backside (side against the fiberglass) weakening them substantially. I have replaced all of them. If these brackets originally had any coating on them at all it certainly didn't hold up well over time. The cost of new ones just doesn't compare to the effort to replace them and I won't be doing that job again.

Good luck... GUSTO

hwcoop

just about all of my brackets were rusted when I took the body off so I had to sandblast them or replace them. I used an air chisel with a modified bit and backed the rivit up with a body dolly, worked great...here are a few pics

Modofied air chisel bit by grinding flat then countersink with a drill bit.


Just a Little Crusty!


Shoulder belt reinforcement


nut plates at rear had broken studs so I replaced them...I bought a large bag of them so some of the rivits may be a bit long for certain applications