Didn't get the car yet :(
07-30-2013, 03:11 PM
#41
Racer
Member Since: May 2013
Location: Panama City Beach Florida
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DDAwson, the car is about 7 hours away, we live in a really small town with only 2 trailers and my friend here who owns a closed trailer can't go for 2 wks and our Sporttrac isn't strong enough to pull it. Need a dually. The quote prices are coming down to probably what it would cost us in gas and hotel to go get it. I will verify the transport company and their rating and get insurance if I need additional than the State Farm coverage I already have. I have a friend who live only a couple of hours away who has a trailer, but he just started a new job and can't get time off yet. I may see if he can do it this weekend. It's a lot to ask of someone even with paying them for their time/gas.
Adam meh: the pepper is interesting, good to know if stranded. thanks.
Adam meh: the pepper is interesting, good to know if stranded. thanks.
07-30-2013, 03:37 PM
#43
Instructor
Thread Starter
Gee Delta26, I vaguely remember you and a certain transport company. Duly noted. I will check out whatever company comes in with the best bid and see if they do it themselved or farm it out and to who, if so. Thanks guys!
07-30-2013, 07:30 PM
#44
Racer
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Location: Panama City Beach Florida
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This morning I take Renegade in for window tinting. Drop him off and leave the key in the ignition. Head off for work all excited for 4 o'clock to come so I can go see his bad *** new dark tint.
I drive up into the parking area and there he sits with NO TINT! I go in and ask what the hell happened and he says he tried all day to start it but it wouldn't start so he couldn't move it into the bay. Now I'm worried.
I go out, get in, push the key ALL THE WAY IN TO THE IGNITION and BAM, the Eckler straight pipes are rumbling.
The idiot didn't have the sense to push the key all the way in.
I feel your pain.
07-31-2013, 12:38 AM
#45
Burning Brakes
if you own or can borrow a truck with a hitch, rent a u-haul trailer and make a day of. Enjoy the drive, the conversation, stop for lunch, look the town over a little and try to enjoy the experience. I towed my 76 from Pensacola Florida to Gatlinburg Tn on a trailer in late March to attend a Corvette Expo, show and swap meet. The U-Haul trailer was about $55.00 per day which I thought was high because it sat for four days but it was a great trip. It will also be an experience you will never forget and one day might think it was kind of funny. Look, your life with the car is just starting. The mountains you see now will be small hills in the not to distant future. You could even ask some best friends to go with you and make it a weekend.Just go get it and enjoy it.
Good Luck,
Bill
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Good Luck,
Bill
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07-31-2013, 07:44 AM
#46
Instructor
Thread Starter
Delta26, the ignition thing is too funny. It's sad, but we are surrounded by idiots. The world is dumbing down!
Sweet76, we just DID that! Except for the u-haul part. We stayed with friends, then got stranded for a little while and couldn't even see them the 2nd night since we didn't get in until 10 pm. I am on call 1/2 the month for surgery and am on call this wk end, I can't go until the following weekend and really don't want it at the dealership we left it at until then. The following morning we explored the town, had lunch and drove home. The best part of the weekend was we took the dogs with us and found how good our new girl travels for long distance. And seeing the vette for the first time in person. It is a really gorgeous car. So, it should be home this next week and then I'll post pictures.
Sweet76, we just DID that! Except for the u-haul part. We stayed with friends, then got stranded for a little while and couldn't even see them the 2nd night since we didn't get in until 10 pm. I am on call 1/2 the month for surgery and am on call this wk end, I can't go until the following weekend and really don't want it at the dealership we left it at until then. The following morning we explored the town, had lunch and drove home. The best part of the weekend was we took the dogs with us and found how good our new girl travels for long distance. And seeing the vette for the first time in person. It is a really gorgeous car. So, it should be home this next week and then I'll post pictures.
07-31-2013, 09:15 AM
#47
Race Director
Member Since: Feb 2002
Location: Compound in the Grove, Ga.
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2020 C3 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2019 C4 of Year Finalist (performance mods)
2018 C4 of Year Finalist
2015 C4 of the Year Finalist
St. Jude Donor '16
2020 C3 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
looking forward to your pics, I'm sure once you get it home and have the issues fixed you will soon forget about these problems or bumps in the road as you enjoy riding around with the tops off and the wind in your hair.
Best of luck Steve
Best of luck Steve
08-02-2013, 11:24 PM
#49
Was it still leaking when you got to the shop? A weak cap can cause the rad to boil out. Does it have an overflow hose at all? I've seen them routed across the top and down the side of the radiator but just dead end half way down the rad. If the owners mechanic filled the Rad all they way to the top, it would overflow, and with no tank, on to the ground it goes. I really hope this isn't the case and the shop is just sticking you for a new rad.
08-03-2013, 12:18 AM
#50
Burning Brakes
txdoglover, personally I think the problems you are going through with the car will work out. Without knowing you, I have a feeling you get things done right. This will turn out well for you so relax but proceed along. Good Luck.
08-03-2013, 07:53 AM
#51
Instructor
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Location: Irma Northern WI
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Scrappy76, Easy Mike, Paul74,Qwark,Mike Ward, Adam Meh: $1140 was for axcel (axle?) seal, the headlights (still not working) and some other misc stuff (inspection, oil change, etc), my husband has that receipt with him, so I can't refer to it. The deal we made with the prev owner was that we would pay part of the bill (for the things we wanted fixed), since some of it were things he wouldn't put into it himself, like the headlights, as he never drove it at night. He's 72 and probably isn't comfortable driving at nighttime. He did tell the mechanic (who I believe did substandard work) that we needed the car to be able to drive and to make sure it didn't have anything that needed maintenance not done. Not sure if I worded that the way I meant. The prev owner has called me a couple of times trying to see what he can do, he has called one of the head honcho's of Chevrolet here in Texas to see if they can expedite our repair and maybe decrease the price. We bought the car, he really doesn't owe us anything, I think he really does feel bad that this happened. He did have it in the shop for enought time for the mechanic to find any problems if he was looking for them. A presssure check on that radiator would have been nice and a good flushing. A lot of people wouldn't even bother to call again to check on things like he is. The water hose was intact, one of the military guys who came to my rescue said it was pouring out of a hole in the side of the radiator. We were not stranded as my husband was driving the Sporttrac, so we got the car to the nearby Chev dealership and left it after hours and drove on home. I am having the dealership put in the new radiator and working on getting it transported. I will have my mechanic check it out and make sure it was done properly and also make sure everything else looks okay. I had a radiator drop shipped today and am getting price quotes on transport. My hands are kinda tied, I just want to get the car here and start getting it reliable. Thanks for all the input. I would like to know how the black pepper trick works. And where the hell Ontariariario is. I'm betting somewhere near Ontario. 
.
08-03-2013, 08:19 AM
#52
Instructor
Thread Starter
Delta26, I was just thinking about you and the fact that you have not posted pics of Renegade yet? Or did I miss that post? Waiting
Wegone: That will be today! Car is supposed to be delivered this afternoon! Will post.
Whitehause: The overflow had no cap (still doesn't, am getting one, as well as a new cap for the new radiator). I don't think the overflow had anything in it when we were dealing with it. We drove the 3 miles to the dealer very carefully after it was completely cooled off. I really don't care too much at this point about buying a new radiator, now I've got a new one and hopefully I can drive the car for awhile without something else busting out!
Sweet76: I put in a uship for bids and got someone who lives right near the dealer and he is hauling it right over so it gets picked up and delivered on one day. It's only 400 miles and I feel better not having a shipper who's going to be hauling it around for their possible 5-7 days while they are doing the logistics of delivering a bunch of cars along the way. I figure the less time they have my car, the less time they have to damage it.
Roadblock69: I think the part that bothered me the most is the brown fluid leaking, which tells me that it wasn't flushed or checked and that is the one thing that has stranded me in years past when I was younger. Now, I'm driving new cars that don't have radiator problems. Until now, that I'm older. Gone full circle! My mechanic will have this car on Mon am (or maybe Tues since his Mondays are so busy) and get the u-joints, bearings, hoses and belts checked out. Thanks guys!! So excited for this afternoon to get here!
Wegone: That will be today! Car is supposed to be delivered this afternoon! Will post.
Whitehause: The overflow had no cap (still doesn't, am getting one, as well as a new cap for the new radiator). I don't think the overflow had anything in it when we were dealing with it. We drove the 3 miles to the dealer very carefully after it was completely cooled off. I really don't care too much at this point about buying a new radiator, now I've got a new one and hopefully I can drive the car for awhile without something else busting out!
Sweet76: I put in a uship for bids and got someone who lives right near the dealer and he is hauling it right over so it gets picked up and delivered on one day. It's only 400 miles and I feel better not having a shipper who's going to be hauling it around for their possible 5-7 days while they are doing the logistics of delivering a bunch of cars along the way. I figure the less time they have my car, the less time they have to damage it.
Roadblock69: I think the part that bothered me the most is the brown fluid leaking, which tells me that it wasn't flushed or checked and that is the one thing that has stranded me in years past when I was younger. Now, I'm driving new cars that don't have radiator problems. Until now, that I'm older. Gone full circle! My mechanic will have this car on Mon am (or maybe Tues since his Mondays are so busy) and get the u-joints, bearings, hoses and belts checked out. Thanks guys!! So excited for this afternoon to get here!
08-03-2013, 09:00 AM
#54
Race Director
That will be today! Car is supposed to be delivered this afternoon!
The overflow had no cap (still doesn't, am getting one, as well as a new cap for the new radiator). I don't think the overflow had anything in it when we were dealing with it. We drove the 3 miles to the dealer very carefully after it was completely cooled off. I really don't care too much at this point about buying a new radiator, now I've got a new one and hopefully I can drive the car for awhile without something else busting out!
The overflow had no cap (still doesn't, am getting one, as well as a new cap for the new radiator). I don't think the overflow had anything in it when we were dealing with it. We drove the 3 miles to the dealer very carefully after it was completely cooled off. I really don't care too much at this point about buying a new radiator, now I've got a new one and hopefully I can drive the car for awhile without something else busting out!
Looked up your location, in the middle of Egypt, don't want to break down there.
The brown coolant and overflowing is just a prime example of a neglected cooling system. the whole system is more than likely corroded, caked up radiator probably severely plugged, often too far gone for rodding, although core replacement is an option.
Flushing by the selling mechanic probably would have helped, but may not have solved the problem.
It is important that you do not flush or clean the cooling system with the new radiator installed. You will just plug at least some of the tubes. It is also imperative that you do the process by removing the block plugs, otherwise it just doesn't clean properly, no matter what your mechanic may say. The reason why I say this is because it is a major PITA to do it properly and none like to do it properly. I do a serious cleaning for any cooling system older or newer as soon as I get one. It's one of those things that is never maintained properly and causes the highest percentage of engine failures of anything.
Changing coolant (not flushing) should be done every 2 years max for any vehicle.
Here is an example of what is mixed in with the brown coolant.
Read thru this thread and it seems you should start from the basics, since you really don't know what you have.
Prudent to clean the system first.
DO NOT do it after installing a new radiator.
Here is an appropriate cleaner, not the flush.
Follow the directions, important to drive it hot long enough.
Prior to starting, with the existing coolant drained remove the block plugs, it will give you a good indication of the condition of the coolant passages.
Further, removal and rinsing using the plugs after flushing is essential for a proper cleaning.
Here are a couple pics, one of the block drains plugged (rather common) and another of just a small portion of the crap that was removed.
BTW, the engine was NOT overheating in S Florida and the coolant looked clean and green.
Once you start with a clean system and new rad you can more intelligently diagnose any cooling problems.
Prudent to clean the system first.
DO NOT do it after installing a new radiator.
Here is an appropriate cleaner, not the flush.
Follow the directions, important to drive it hot long enough.
Prior to starting, with the existing coolant drained remove the block plugs, it will give you a good indication of the condition of the coolant passages.
Further, removal and rinsing using the plugs after flushing is essential for a proper cleaning.
Here are a couple pics, one of the block drains plugged (rather common) and another of just a small portion of the crap that was removed.
BTW, the engine was NOT overheating in S Florida and the coolant looked clean and green.
Once you start with a clean system and new rad you can more intelligently diagnose any cooling problems.
Prestone used to make a cleaner for GM P/N 12346500.
It was also sold under Prestone P/N AS100 Heavy Duty Cooling System Cleaner
Here is the GM TSB and Instructions #99-06-02-012D (Online or at a GM dealer)
It is not made anymore but these are the components.
9 dry oz of Oxalic Acid (DAP Wood Bleach)
2 dry oz of Sodium Carbonate (Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda)
It was also sold under Prestone P/N AS100 Heavy Duty Cooling System Cleaner
Here is the GM TSB and Instructions #99-06-02-012D (Online or at a GM dealer)
It is not made anymore but these are the components.
9 dry oz of Oxalic Acid (DAP Wood Bleach)
2 dry oz of Sodium Carbonate (Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda)
Here is a GM TSB Originally for Dexcool problems, but the procedure still applies for cleaning.
This bulletin is being revised to include additional model years. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 99-06-02-012C (Section 06 -- Engine).
Condition
Some customers may comment that the heater is inoperative, blows cold air, engine may exhibit an overheat condition or the coolant reservoir has rust in it.
Cause
Vehicles equipped with DEX-COOL® coolant, which may have been operated for extended periods of time with a low coolant level, usually in excess of 32,000 km (20,000 mi), may be susceptible to the formation of a rust-like material in the cooling system.
Correction
Flush the cooling system using the repair procedures that follow.
Parts and equipment required/suggested for this correction are listed below.
1 each *Prestone® Flush and Fill Kit #AF-KITP U.S. (#00050 in Canada). This kit can be obtained from your local parts supplier and can be used on all vehicles repaired under this procedure. Save it after performing the repair, as it is reusable.
1 each *Prestone® Heavy Duty Cooling System Cleaner, GM P/N 12346500 - 1 per vehicle. This cleaner is in powder form and contains a neutralizer. Do not substitute other cleaners. The diluted cleaners that are available in liquid form are not recommended for this repair.
5.7 L (6 qt) of 100% (non-diluted) DEX-COOL® coolant (GM Spec 6277M).
1 each new thermostat, GM P/N 12563335.
2 each new radiator cap, GM P/N 15075565.
1 each *Prestone® yellow funnel. This funnel can also be obtained from your local parts supplier. It fits snugly into the radiator opening for an easy fill and is reusable.
*We believe this source and their products to be reliable. There may be additional manufacturers of such products. General Motors does not endorse, indicate any preference for or assume any responsibility for the products from this firm or for any such items which may be available from other sources.
Important
Verify the fuel level in the fuel tank. The fuel level should be above ¼ tank before this procedure is started.
As a precaution, verify the oil level in the crankcase. Add the amount required to bring the oil level into the normal range.
It is recommended the vehicle be placed in a position so that the following are available:
A sanitary sewer -- not a storm drain, etc
A monoxivent system (if the outside temperature is less than 10°C (50°F)).
Hot running water
Notice
Due to the complexity of these procedures, the following repair steps must be strictly adhered to in order to achieve the intended results. Any deviation or substitution may result in sub-standard cleaning/flushing results or system damage.
Diagnostic Procedure
Install the Scan Tool. This will allow monitoring of the coolant temperature throughout the procedure.
Caution
As long as there is pressure in the cooling system, the temperature can be considerably higher than the boiling temperature of the solution in the radiator without causing the solution to boil. Removal of the radiator cap while the engine is hot and pressure is high will cause the solution to boil instantaneously - possibly with explosive force - spewing the solution over the engine, fenders and the person removing the cap. Under some conditions, the engine coolant is combustible.
Important
The installation of a NEW radiator cap at the beginning of this procedure and the second new cap at the end of the repair procedure is necessary in order for the correct pressure to be achieved and for the repair to be completed successfully.
The radiator cap is NOT a good indicator of the general condition of the cooling system. Typically the underside of the radiator cap will exhibit a greater amount of contamination than the rest of the system. It is important to evaluate the condition of the cooling system by checking the following before beginning the repair procedure:
Remove the radiator cap. Install a new radiator cap, GM P/N 15075565. A properly operating radiator cap is essential for this procedure to work properly. Be sure to wipe off all radiator cap sealing surfaces prior to installation.
Start the engine.
Using a flashlight or lead light, look into the radiator. From the right side of the vehicle, peer into the radiator toward the left side of the vehicle. Observe the top three rows (or tubes) of the radiator. (It may be necessary to drain off some of the coolant to see the top three rows of the radiator). If it appears the coolant is able to flow through the third row down from the top, the vehicle should be repaired using Procedure A. If it appears the coolant is NOT able to flow through the third row down from the top, then the vehicle should be repaired using Procedure B.
Stop the engine.
Repair Procedure A & B
Important
If available, use coolant exchanger Pro-Fill 42-75100-KM, Power Flush 211-07601/DEX (available through the GM Dealer Equipment program), or equivalent to evacuate the system of coolant. Follow the manufacturer's instructions for exchanging used coolant with new coolant. However, for this procedure, use water in place of new coolant. Be sure to exchange 1½ times the cooling system capacity of the vehicle with water. This will ensure that only water remains within the cooling system. Once the coolant has been displaced with water, drain the water from the radiator.
If you are located within an area which regulates the disposal of used coolant (check with your local water treatment facility), all coolant and coolant/water mixture must be captured until the water runs clear of coolant. Use a clean 208 L (55 gal) drum or similar to contain the waste coolant. Refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 00-06-02-006 for information on coolant recycling and removal services.
Drain and properly dispose of the coolant.
Caution
Any obstructions in the hoses to or from the coolant recovery bottle may cause over-pressurization of the cooling system. This over-pressurization could result in serious personal injury.
Inspect the following hoses in order to assure there are no obstructions and the coolant is able to flow freely:
The hose to the coolant recovery bottle.
The relief hose from the coolant recovery bottle.
Disconnect both coolant hoses to the heater core from the engine.
Back flush the heater core for 5 minutes after clear water is present. Pressurized water not to exceed 345 Kpa (50 psi), may be used.
Reinstall the heater return hose to the engine.
Install the radiator cap and properly tighten.
Install the "T" from the flush and fill kit to a 25.4 cm (10 in) piece of 19 mm (¾ in) heater hose. Tighten the clamp.
Install the hose to the engine. Tighten the clamp.
Install the other end of the "T" in the heater core inlet hose. Tighten the clamp.
Disconnect the upper radiator hose from the radiator. Properly position the hose, so the accessory drive belt or any pulley/belt cannot touch the hose.
If you used coolant exchange equipment, disconnect it.
Attach a garden hose to the "T" of the flush and fill kit. Turn on the water and back flush the cooling system for at least two minutes after the water runs clear.
Start the engine and continue back flushing the cooling system for five additional minutes.
Turn the engine "OFF".
Turn the water "OFF".
Re-attach the upper radiator hose to the radiator.
Open the radiator drain and drain all water from the radiator.
Remove the lower left water pump crossover bolt. This allows lowering the water level in the left side of the engine.
After the water stops running from the water pump bolt hole, reinstall the bolt.
Close the radiator drain.
Mix the Prestone® Heavy Duty Cooling System Cleaner, GM P/N 12346500, in approximately 3 L (3 qt) of warm water. Pour the mixture into the radiator. Top off the system with plain water and reinstall the radiator cap.
Run the engine at 1600 to 1800 RPM with the air conditioning in the maximum cool position. To achieve the 1600 to 1800 RPM, place a dime between the closed throttle stop and the screw. This screw should never be adjusted, under any circumstance. Its only purpose is to keep the throttle plate from sticking in the bore when the throttle is slammed shut. It is not a minimum idle (RPM) control adjustment screw.
Important
It is imperative that all air pockets have been removed from the cooling system in order for the cleaning procedure to be effective.
Service Procedure A
For Service Procedure A, the cleaner should be left in the system for three hours (after normal operating temperature of the cooling system has been achieved). Normal operating temperature is when the coolant temperature stabilizes around 98°C (200°F). The best results are obtained when the coolant temperature is between 98°C (200°F) and 110°C (230°F). DO NOT EXCEED 113°C (235°F). Use the Scan Tool to determine when this point has been reached. When this temperature has been reached, start the clock. Periodically (every twenty minutes or so), monitor the coolant temperature and engine during the three hour run time. A half hour has been built into the actual labor time to cover for the time spent monitoring the engine, etc.
In order to achieve a constant temperature of 98°C (200°F) to 110°C (230°F) during this procedure, maintain the idle speed, turn on the A/C or partially close the hood.
Service Procedure B
For Service Procedure B, the cleaner should be left in the system for two and a half hours (after normal operating temperature of the cooling system has been achieved). Normal operating temperature is when the coolant temperature stabilizes around 98°C (200°F). The best results are obtained when the coolant temperature is between 98°C (200°F) and 110°C (230°F). DO NOT EXCEED 113°C (235°F). Use the Scan Tool to determine when this point has been reached. When this temperature has been reached, start the clock. Periodically (every twenty minutes or so), monitor the coolant temperature and engine during the two and a half hour run time. A half hour has been built into the actual labor time to cover for the time spent monitoring the engine, etc.
In order to achieve a constant temperature of 98°C (200°F) to 110°C (230°F) during this procedure, maintain the idle speed, turn on the A/C or partially close the hood.
Important
The vehicle should not be left idling outdoors when the ambient temperature is below 10°C (50°F). The flushing procedure relies on heat as a catalyst in order to be effective. Ambient temperatures below 10°C (50°F) do not allow sufficient cycling of the thermostat to effectively clean the cooling system.
Turn off the engine.
Remove the dime from the closed throttle stop screw. Do NOT remove the radiator cap. Following the procedure listed below will assist you in draining the cooling system thoroughly.
Place a drain pan under the radiator drain hose.
Caution
The cooling system and coolant are hot and under pressure. Loosen only the radiator drain until the pressure has been released from the cooling system and follow the procedures exactly in this bulletin, using normal safety precautions to avoid being injured by the hot coolant mixture.
Loosen the radiator drain. Drain approximately 1 L (1 qt) of liquid from the system.
After the pressure has been released from the cooling system, slowly loosen the radiator cap to the safety stop. Do not remove the cap (This releases the spring pressure on the secondary seal while retaining the primary seal to the top of the filler neck and will allow the coolant reservoir to be evacuated).
When the coolant reservoir is empty, re-tighten the radiator cap fully.
Remove the cap from the flush and fill "T". This will allow the coolant to be siphoned from the heater core and the engine block.
When the water has stopped coming out of the radiator drain hose, close the radiator drain. Do not place the cap on the "T".
Using Prestone® Heavy Duty Cooling System Cleaner, GM P/N 12346500, mix the neutralizer (from the bottom of the can) with approximately 3 L (3 qt) of warm (shower temperature) water.
Notice
Do not put cold water into a hot engine as engine damage may occur.
Under no circumstances should the neutralizer be left in the cooling system for any longer than ten minutes once the vehicle has reached operating temperature (thermostat open). The neutralizer is corrosive to aluminum and will damage system components if it is left in the cooling system for longer than ten minutes.
Pour the mixture from the step above into the radiator.
Completely refill the cooling system with warm to hot water through the "T". When the radiator is full, install the radiator cap to the safety catch. Continue to fill until the overflow reservoir is filled to the hot line on the reservoir.
Remove the fill hose and install the cap on the "T" and the radiator fully.
Important
It is imperative that all air pockets have been removed in order for the procedure to be effective.
Start the engine. After engine speed stabilizes, reinstall the dime between the closed throttle stop and the screw. With the A/C on, bring the cooling system back to normal operating temperature and follow the directions on the can.
Turn off the engine.
Remove the dime from the closed throttle stop and the screw.
Caution
As long as there is pressure in the cooling system, the temperature can be considerably higher than the boiling temperature of the solution in the radiator without causing the solution to boil. Removal of the radiator cap while the engine is hot and pressure is high will cause the solution to boil instantaneously - possibly with explosive force - spewing the solution over the engine, fenders and the person removing the cap.
Drain the cooling system, following the procedure listed in Step 24 above.
Do not close the radiator drain. Leave it open.
Disconnect the upper radiator hose from the radiator. Properly position the hose, so the accessory drive belt or any pulley/belt cannot touch the hose.
Attach a garden hose to the "T" of the flush and fill kit. Turn on the water and back flush the cooling system for at least two minutes after the water runs clear.
Start the engine and continue back flushing the cooling system for five additional minutes.
Turn the engine "OFF".
Turn the water "OFF".
Close the radiator drain.
Important
If the repair is a Procedure A, go to Step 40.
If the repair is a Procedure B, remove the radiator and have it recorded and steam clean the end tanks. After reinstalling the radiator, continue to Step 40.
Remove the air cleaner housing and tube assembly from the throttle body.
Remove the two nuts holding the throttle cable bracket to the throttle body and position the bracket and the cables out of the way.
Remove the thermostat.
Remove the previously installed flush kit "T" and hose. Save for future use on other vehicles.
Install the heater inlet hose to the intake manifold and secure with the original spring clamp.
Inspect the thermostat opening and cover for foreign material. Clean if necessary.
Remove the left lower water pump crossover bolt to drain the left side of the block and the left cylinder head.
Install sealant to the bolt threads, using GM P/N 12346004 (Canada GM P/N 10953480), or equivalent and reinstall the water pump crossover bolt. Tighten
Tighten the bolt to 41 N·m (30 lb ft).
If available, use coolant exchanger Pro-Fill, Power Flush, or equivalent to fill the system with 50/50 DEX-COOL® coolant. If a coolant exchanger is not available, proceed to the next step now. Follow the manufacturer's instructions for system fill/coolant exchange. If you are using coolant exchange equipment, you will need to install a new thermostat, GM P/N 12563335 and top off the system with clean drinkable water prior to exchanging. After exchanging, install the upper radiator hose and clean out the coolant recovery bottle. Proceed to Step 56.
Pour 5.6784 L (6 qts) of 100% (not pre-mixed) DEX-COOL® coolant into a clean container.
Using a clean funnel, pour as much of the 100% DEX-COOL® coolant that you can into the engine through the thermostat opening.
Install a new thermostat, GM P/N 12563335. Tighten
Tighten the bolt to the specified torque of 19 N·m (14 lb ft).
Hold the upper radiator hose in the straight up position and pour 0.473 L (1 pint) of the 100% DEX-COOL® coolant into the hose.
Install the upper radiator hose to the radiator and properly position the clamp.
Flush the coolant recovery bottle thoroughly.
Complete the fill of the cooling system with the balance of the 5.7 L (6 qt) of 100% DEX-COOL® coolant and top off with plain water. If the water is not drinkable, do not use. Water must be clean and fresh.
Important
The second new radiator cap must be installed at this point of the procedure. It is possible that small contaminants may have become lodged in portions of the first cap during the cleaning procedure.
Clean the radiator cap sealing surfaces on the radiator. Install the radiator cap, GM P/N 15075565.
Important
It is imperative that all air pockets have been removed in order for the cooling system to function properly.
Run the engine to operating temperature with the air conditioning in the maximum cool position for ten minutes.
Caution
As long as there is pressure in the cooling system, the temperature can be considerably higher than the boiling temperature of the solution in the radiator without causing the solution to boil. Removal of the radiator cap while the engine is hot and pressure is high will cause the solution to boil instantaneously - possibly with explosive force - spewing the solution over the engine, fenders and the person removing the cap. Under some conditions, the engine coolant is combustible.
Turn the engine "OFF" and let it cool.
Check the coolant concentration for a 50/50 mix, using refractometer J 26568 (Centigrade scale) or J 23688 (Fahrenheit scale). Follow the manufacturer's directions for using the coolant tester. Unless your coolant tester has a provision for temperature correction, it is imperative that the correct coolant temperature is achieved when testing the coolant. If the coolant is warmer or cooler, the reading may be incorrect.
Top off the radiator and fill the coolant recovery bottle to 2.54 cm (1 in) above the full hot mark on the coolant reservoir. Add the appropriate coolant mixture to come to a 50/50 mix of the DEX-COOL® coolant.
Important
To assure intended system performance, inform the customer that the cooling system MUST be maintained in a completely full condition.
This bulletin is being revised to include additional model years. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 99-06-02-012C (Section 06 -- Engine).
Condition
Some customers may comment that the heater is inoperative, blows cold air, engine may exhibit an overheat condition or the coolant reservoir has rust in it.
Cause
Vehicles equipped with DEX-COOL® coolant, which may have been operated for extended periods of time with a low coolant level, usually in excess of 32,000 km (20,000 mi), may be susceptible to the formation of a rust-like material in the cooling system.
Correction
Flush the cooling system using the repair procedures that follow.
Parts and equipment required/suggested for this correction are listed below.
1 each *Prestone® Flush and Fill Kit #AF-KITP U.S. (#00050 in Canada). This kit can be obtained from your local parts supplier and can be used on all vehicles repaired under this procedure. Save it after performing the repair, as it is reusable.
1 each *Prestone® Heavy Duty Cooling System Cleaner, GM P/N 12346500 - 1 per vehicle. This cleaner is in powder form and contains a neutralizer. Do not substitute other cleaners. The diluted cleaners that are available in liquid form are not recommended for this repair.
5.7 L (6 qt) of 100% (non-diluted) DEX-COOL® coolant (GM Spec 6277M).
1 each new thermostat, GM P/N 12563335.
2 each new radiator cap, GM P/N 15075565.
1 each *Prestone® yellow funnel. This funnel can also be obtained from your local parts supplier. It fits snugly into the radiator opening for an easy fill and is reusable.
*We believe this source and their products to be reliable. There may be additional manufacturers of such products. General Motors does not endorse, indicate any preference for or assume any responsibility for the products from this firm or for any such items which may be available from other sources.
Important
Verify the fuel level in the fuel tank. The fuel level should be above ¼ tank before this procedure is started.
As a precaution, verify the oil level in the crankcase. Add the amount required to bring the oil level into the normal range.
It is recommended the vehicle be placed in a position so that the following are available:
A sanitary sewer -- not a storm drain, etc
A monoxivent system (if the outside temperature is less than 10°C (50°F)).
Hot running water
Notice
Due to the complexity of these procedures, the following repair steps must be strictly adhered to in order to achieve the intended results. Any deviation or substitution may result in sub-standard cleaning/flushing results or system damage.
Diagnostic Procedure
Install the Scan Tool. This will allow monitoring of the coolant temperature throughout the procedure.
Caution
As long as there is pressure in the cooling system, the temperature can be considerably higher than the boiling temperature of the solution in the radiator without causing the solution to boil. Removal of the radiator cap while the engine is hot and pressure is high will cause the solution to boil instantaneously - possibly with explosive force - spewing the solution over the engine, fenders and the person removing the cap. Under some conditions, the engine coolant is combustible.
Important
The installation of a NEW radiator cap at the beginning of this procedure and the second new cap at the end of the repair procedure is necessary in order for the correct pressure to be achieved and for the repair to be completed successfully.
The radiator cap is NOT a good indicator of the general condition of the cooling system. Typically the underside of the radiator cap will exhibit a greater amount of contamination than the rest of the system. It is important to evaluate the condition of the cooling system by checking the following before beginning the repair procedure:
Remove the radiator cap. Install a new radiator cap, GM P/N 15075565. A properly operating radiator cap is essential for this procedure to work properly. Be sure to wipe off all radiator cap sealing surfaces prior to installation.
Start the engine.
Using a flashlight or lead light, look into the radiator. From the right side of the vehicle, peer into the radiator toward the left side of the vehicle. Observe the top three rows (or tubes) of the radiator. (It may be necessary to drain off some of the coolant to see the top three rows of the radiator). If it appears the coolant is able to flow through the third row down from the top, the vehicle should be repaired using Procedure A. If it appears the coolant is NOT able to flow through the third row down from the top, then the vehicle should be repaired using Procedure B.
Stop the engine.
Repair Procedure A & B
Important
If available, use coolant exchanger Pro-Fill 42-75100-KM, Power Flush 211-07601/DEX (available through the GM Dealer Equipment program), or equivalent to evacuate the system of coolant. Follow the manufacturer's instructions for exchanging used coolant with new coolant. However, for this procedure, use water in place of new coolant. Be sure to exchange 1½ times the cooling system capacity of the vehicle with water. This will ensure that only water remains within the cooling system. Once the coolant has been displaced with water, drain the water from the radiator.
If you are located within an area which regulates the disposal of used coolant (check with your local water treatment facility), all coolant and coolant/water mixture must be captured until the water runs clear of coolant. Use a clean 208 L (55 gal) drum or similar to contain the waste coolant. Refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 00-06-02-006 for information on coolant recycling and removal services.
Drain and properly dispose of the coolant.
Caution
Any obstructions in the hoses to or from the coolant recovery bottle may cause over-pressurization of the cooling system. This over-pressurization could result in serious personal injury.
Inspect the following hoses in order to assure there are no obstructions and the coolant is able to flow freely:
The hose to the coolant recovery bottle.
The relief hose from the coolant recovery bottle.
Disconnect both coolant hoses to the heater core from the engine.
Back flush the heater core for 5 minutes after clear water is present. Pressurized water not to exceed 345 Kpa (50 psi), may be used.
Reinstall the heater return hose to the engine.
Install the radiator cap and properly tighten.
Install the "T" from the flush and fill kit to a 25.4 cm (10 in) piece of 19 mm (¾ in) heater hose. Tighten the clamp.
Install the hose to the engine. Tighten the clamp.
Install the other end of the "T" in the heater core inlet hose. Tighten the clamp.
Disconnect the upper radiator hose from the radiator. Properly position the hose, so the accessory drive belt or any pulley/belt cannot touch the hose.
If you used coolant exchange equipment, disconnect it.
Attach a garden hose to the "T" of the flush and fill kit. Turn on the water and back flush the cooling system for at least two minutes after the water runs clear.
Start the engine and continue back flushing the cooling system for five additional minutes.
Turn the engine "OFF".
Turn the water "OFF".
Re-attach the upper radiator hose to the radiator.
Open the radiator drain and drain all water from the radiator.
Remove the lower left water pump crossover bolt. This allows lowering the water level in the left side of the engine.
After the water stops running from the water pump bolt hole, reinstall the bolt.
Close the radiator drain.
Mix the Prestone® Heavy Duty Cooling System Cleaner, GM P/N 12346500, in approximately 3 L (3 qt) of warm water. Pour the mixture into the radiator. Top off the system with plain water and reinstall the radiator cap.
Run the engine at 1600 to 1800 RPM with the air conditioning in the maximum cool position. To achieve the 1600 to 1800 RPM, place a dime between the closed throttle stop and the screw. This screw should never be adjusted, under any circumstance. Its only purpose is to keep the throttle plate from sticking in the bore when the throttle is slammed shut. It is not a minimum idle (RPM) control adjustment screw.
Important
It is imperative that all air pockets have been removed from the cooling system in order for the cleaning procedure to be effective.
Service Procedure A
For Service Procedure A, the cleaner should be left in the system for three hours (after normal operating temperature of the cooling system has been achieved). Normal operating temperature is when the coolant temperature stabilizes around 98°C (200°F). The best results are obtained when the coolant temperature is between 98°C (200°F) and 110°C (230°F). DO NOT EXCEED 113°C (235°F). Use the Scan Tool to determine when this point has been reached. When this temperature has been reached, start the clock. Periodically (every twenty minutes or so), monitor the coolant temperature and engine during the three hour run time. A half hour has been built into the actual labor time to cover for the time spent monitoring the engine, etc.
In order to achieve a constant temperature of 98°C (200°F) to 110°C (230°F) during this procedure, maintain the idle speed, turn on the A/C or partially close the hood.
Service Procedure B
For Service Procedure B, the cleaner should be left in the system for two and a half hours (after normal operating temperature of the cooling system has been achieved). Normal operating temperature is when the coolant temperature stabilizes around 98°C (200°F). The best results are obtained when the coolant temperature is between 98°C (200°F) and 110°C (230°F). DO NOT EXCEED 113°C (235°F). Use the Scan Tool to determine when this point has been reached. When this temperature has been reached, start the clock. Periodically (every twenty minutes or so), monitor the coolant temperature and engine during the two and a half hour run time. A half hour has been built into the actual labor time to cover for the time spent monitoring the engine, etc.
In order to achieve a constant temperature of 98°C (200°F) to 110°C (230°F) during this procedure, maintain the idle speed, turn on the A/C or partially close the hood.
Important
The vehicle should not be left idling outdoors when the ambient temperature is below 10°C (50°F). The flushing procedure relies on heat as a catalyst in order to be effective. Ambient temperatures below 10°C (50°F) do not allow sufficient cycling of the thermostat to effectively clean the cooling system.
Turn off the engine.
Remove the dime from the closed throttle stop screw. Do NOT remove the radiator cap. Following the procedure listed below will assist you in draining the cooling system thoroughly.
Place a drain pan under the radiator drain hose.
Caution
The cooling system and coolant are hot and under pressure. Loosen only the radiator drain until the pressure has been released from the cooling system and follow the procedures exactly in this bulletin, using normal safety precautions to avoid being injured by the hot coolant mixture.
Loosen the radiator drain. Drain approximately 1 L (1 qt) of liquid from the system.
After the pressure has been released from the cooling system, slowly loosen the radiator cap to the safety stop. Do not remove the cap (This releases the spring pressure on the secondary seal while retaining the primary seal to the top of the filler neck and will allow the coolant reservoir to be evacuated).
When the coolant reservoir is empty, re-tighten the radiator cap fully.
Remove the cap from the flush and fill "T". This will allow the coolant to be siphoned from the heater core and the engine block.
When the water has stopped coming out of the radiator drain hose, close the radiator drain. Do not place the cap on the "T".
Using Prestone® Heavy Duty Cooling System Cleaner, GM P/N 12346500, mix the neutralizer (from the bottom of the can) with approximately 3 L (3 qt) of warm (shower temperature) water.
Notice
Do not put cold water into a hot engine as engine damage may occur.
Under no circumstances should the neutralizer be left in the cooling system for any longer than ten minutes once the vehicle has reached operating temperature (thermostat open). The neutralizer is corrosive to aluminum and will damage system components if it is left in the cooling system for longer than ten minutes.
Pour the mixture from the step above into the radiator.
Completely refill the cooling system with warm to hot water through the "T". When the radiator is full, install the radiator cap to the safety catch. Continue to fill until the overflow reservoir is filled to the hot line on the reservoir.
Remove the fill hose and install the cap on the "T" and the radiator fully.
Important
It is imperative that all air pockets have been removed in order for the procedure to be effective.
Start the engine. After engine speed stabilizes, reinstall the dime between the closed throttle stop and the screw. With the A/C on, bring the cooling system back to normal operating temperature and follow the directions on the can.
Turn off the engine.
Remove the dime from the closed throttle stop and the screw.
Caution
As long as there is pressure in the cooling system, the temperature can be considerably higher than the boiling temperature of the solution in the radiator without causing the solution to boil. Removal of the radiator cap while the engine is hot and pressure is high will cause the solution to boil instantaneously - possibly with explosive force - spewing the solution over the engine, fenders and the person removing the cap.
Drain the cooling system, following the procedure listed in Step 24 above.
Do not close the radiator drain. Leave it open.
Disconnect the upper radiator hose from the radiator. Properly position the hose, so the accessory drive belt or any pulley/belt cannot touch the hose.
Attach a garden hose to the "T" of the flush and fill kit. Turn on the water and back flush the cooling system for at least two minutes after the water runs clear.
Start the engine and continue back flushing the cooling system for five additional minutes.
Turn the engine "OFF".
Turn the water "OFF".
Close the radiator drain.
Important
If the repair is a Procedure A, go to Step 40.
If the repair is a Procedure B, remove the radiator and have it recorded and steam clean the end tanks. After reinstalling the radiator, continue to Step 40.
Remove the air cleaner housing and tube assembly from the throttle body.
Remove the two nuts holding the throttle cable bracket to the throttle body and position the bracket and the cables out of the way.
Remove the thermostat.
Remove the previously installed flush kit "T" and hose. Save for future use on other vehicles.
Install the heater inlet hose to the intake manifold and secure with the original spring clamp.
Inspect the thermostat opening and cover for foreign material. Clean if necessary.
Remove the left lower water pump crossover bolt to drain the left side of the block and the left cylinder head.
Install sealant to the bolt threads, using GM P/N 12346004 (Canada GM P/N 10953480), or equivalent and reinstall the water pump crossover bolt. Tighten
Tighten the bolt to 41 N·m (30 lb ft).
If available, use coolant exchanger Pro-Fill, Power Flush, or equivalent to fill the system with 50/50 DEX-COOL® coolant. If a coolant exchanger is not available, proceed to the next step now. Follow the manufacturer's instructions for system fill/coolant exchange. If you are using coolant exchange equipment, you will need to install a new thermostat, GM P/N 12563335 and top off the system with clean drinkable water prior to exchanging. After exchanging, install the upper radiator hose and clean out the coolant recovery bottle. Proceed to Step 56.
Pour 5.6784 L (6 qts) of 100% (not pre-mixed) DEX-COOL® coolant into a clean container.
Using a clean funnel, pour as much of the 100% DEX-COOL® coolant that you can into the engine through the thermostat opening.
Install a new thermostat, GM P/N 12563335. Tighten
Tighten the bolt to the specified torque of 19 N·m (14 lb ft).
Hold the upper radiator hose in the straight up position and pour 0.473 L (1 pint) of the 100% DEX-COOL® coolant into the hose.
Install the upper radiator hose to the radiator and properly position the clamp.
Flush the coolant recovery bottle thoroughly.
Complete the fill of the cooling system with the balance of the 5.7 L (6 qt) of 100% DEX-COOL® coolant and top off with plain water. If the water is not drinkable, do not use. Water must be clean and fresh.
Important
The second new radiator cap must be installed at this point of the procedure. It is possible that small contaminants may have become lodged in portions of the first cap during the cleaning procedure.
Clean the radiator cap sealing surfaces on the radiator. Install the radiator cap, GM P/N 15075565.
Important
It is imperative that all air pockets have been removed in order for the cooling system to function properly.
Run the engine to operating temperature with the air conditioning in the maximum cool position for ten minutes.
Caution
As long as there is pressure in the cooling system, the temperature can be considerably higher than the boiling temperature of the solution in the radiator without causing the solution to boil. Removal of the radiator cap while the engine is hot and pressure is high will cause the solution to boil instantaneously - possibly with explosive force - spewing the solution over the engine, fenders and the person removing the cap. Under some conditions, the engine coolant is combustible.
Turn the engine "OFF" and let it cool.
Check the coolant concentration for a 50/50 mix, using refractometer J 26568 (Centigrade scale) or J 23688 (Fahrenheit scale). Follow the manufacturer's directions for using the coolant tester. Unless your coolant tester has a provision for temperature correction, it is imperative that the correct coolant temperature is achieved when testing the coolant. If the coolant is warmer or cooler, the reading may be incorrect.
Top off the radiator and fill the coolant recovery bottle to 2.54 cm (1 in) above the full hot mark on the coolant reservoir. Add the appropriate coolant mixture to come to a 50/50 mix of the DEX-COOL® coolant.
Important
To assure intended system performance, inform the customer that the cooling system MUST be maintained in a completely full condition.
08-03-2013, 09:59 AM
#55
5th Gear
Member Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 5
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Ma'am,
My name is Ben H. English, and I live in Ozona. I was also raised in the Lajitas/Terlingua area.
Most everyone around here knows me, and will tell you that I know a bit about automobiles. I have a large shop, do all my own work, and have three Vettes parked around here at present (two C4s and a C3).
If I can be of any assistance in getting your Vette to Alpine, please let me know. If you do come through Ozona, I would be more than happy to take a very close look at it for you. My wife loves company and makes the best iced tea in the county. She likes old Vettes, too.
You can confirm my bona fides by just calling the DPS here. I retired as a trooper a couple of years ago. We are in the phone book.
May God bless you and yours,
Ben H. English
Ozona, Texas
USMC: 1976-1983
THP: 1986-2008
"Graying but still game"
4paladin@verizon.net
325-392-3878
My name is Ben H. English, and I live in Ozona. I was also raised in the Lajitas/Terlingua area.
Most everyone around here knows me, and will tell you that I know a bit about automobiles. I have a large shop, do all my own work, and have three Vettes parked around here at present (two C4s and a C3).
If I can be of any assistance in getting your Vette to Alpine, please let me know. If you do come through Ozona, I would be more than happy to take a very close look at it for you. My wife loves company and makes the best iced tea in the county. She likes old Vettes, too.
You can confirm my bona fides by just calling the DPS here. I retired as a trooper a couple of years ago. We are in the phone book.
May God bless you and yours,
Ben H. English
Ozona, Texas
USMC: 1976-1983
THP: 1986-2008
"Graying but still game"
4paladin@verizon.net
325-392-3878
Last edited by Tx_Paladin; 08-03-2013 at 10:05 AM.
08-03-2013, 10:55 AM
#56
No cap on the recovery tank? If I recall, the hose from the radiator neck attaches directly to the cap on the recovery tank (at least on my '75). Where does that hose go to on yours? Is it just temporarily held into the opening of the recovery tank?
If you did see an acutal rupture in the radiator, I'm glad to hear you bought a new one! If the radiator was just a few years old and the puncture was caused by road debris, then fine, fix it.
Since you have brown water which is either rust or Bars Leak, it means the radiator is garbage and most likely original. Fix that leak and I guarantee more and more will continue to pop up. You don't need to be left in a possible dangerous situation or at best a very inconvenient one. Only type that would want to hang onto a 3+ decade old radiator are the creepy purists.
I changed mine out when it hit 30 years old just as preventative maintenance (no leaks or cooling issues). Also make sure the shop gives you back your old radiator. I took mine to a local recycler and they gave me over $50 bucks for it as scrap!
If you did see an acutal rupture in the radiator, I'm glad to hear you bought a new one! If the radiator was just a few years old and the puncture was caused by road debris, then fine, fix it.
Since you have brown water which is either rust or Bars Leak, it means the radiator is garbage and most likely original. Fix that leak and I guarantee more and more will continue to pop up. You don't need to be left in a possible dangerous situation or at best a very inconvenient one. Only type that would want to hang onto a 3+ decade old radiator are the creepy purists.
I changed mine out when it hit 30 years old just as preventative maintenance (no leaks or cooling issues). Also make sure the shop gives you back your old radiator. I took mine to a local recycler and they gave me over $50 bucks for it as scrap!
08-03-2013, 02:57 PM
#57
Instructor
Thread Starter
Tx Paladin, that is so sweet of you! The car is being brought to me in a car hauler, it should be 1/2 way here by now, thinking it will be a 5-7 pm delivery. I really appreciate the offer, and if I ever feel confidant enough in the car to drive it to Ozona, I will take you up on your offer. If you ever find your way to the Big Bend area let me know! Thanks so much!
Vairxpert, I will take pics when the car get here, maybe tomorrow morning, I'll post. I do think the radiator was busted, and Noonie, I'll have to sit down and read through yours, Good Night! that is a long post! I saw my mechanic at Auto Zone, went to get a radiator cap, and told him I'd be bringing it by, so I have to know what to ask him to check out after I read that post and copy it if I can! Thanks guys!
Vairxpert, I will take pics when the car get here, maybe tomorrow morning, I'll post. I do think the radiator was busted, and Noonie, I'll have to sit down and read through yours, Good Night! that is a long post! I saw my mechanic at Auto Zone, went to get a radiator cap, and told him I'd be bringing it by, so I have to know what to ask him to check out after I read that post and copy it if I can! Thanks guys!