levrac68

The dealer is holding this car for me w my deposit. I haven't inspected her yet, but will be flying there this week. No power brakes, steering or windows. 4 wheel disc and removable window are the options.

Any red flags here I may have missed? Any thoughts on what she's worth?

This is the advertisement 1972 LT1...

NCRS CERTIFIED NUMBERS MATCHING AND DOCUMENTED WITH PROTECT-O-PLATE. THIS IS A VERY CLEAN, HONEST CORVETTE. ODOMETER SHOWS 30,000 MILES AND THE CARS CONDITION SUPPORTS THAT BEING TRUE. BODY IS PRISTINE. ALL OF THE GAPS ARE RIGHT ON. HAS ONE QUALITY REPAINT. JAMBS ARE STILL ORIGINAL. EXCELLENT CHROME. INTERIOR IS ALL ORIGINAL AND IT IS OBVIOUSLY BEEN VERY WELL CARED FOR. HAS A NEWER CORVETTE STEREO WITHOUT CUTTING THE DASH. MOTOR IS REBUILT. MOTOR COMPARTMENT IS DETAILED LIKE IT LEFT THE FACTORY. HAS ORIGINAL SMOG PUMP, IGNITION SHIELDING, MANIFOLDS, VALVE COVERS, ETC. HAS NEW FRONT END BUSHINGS. WE HAVE A LETTER ON NCRS LETTERHEAD FROM A NCRS CHAIRMAN THAT INDICATES THIS IS THE ORIGINAL MOTOR THIS CAR WAS BORN WITH. FUNCTIONS LIKE NEW. EVERYTHING WORKS INCLUDING LIGHTS AND WIPER DOOR. SHOP AROUND, NOT ONLY IS THIS CAR PRICED AGGRESSIVELY FOR A LT-1 BUT IS ALSO ONE OF THE BEST YOU WILL FIND.

arkus

I don't think the protecto plate tells wether or not the car is an lt1 . I could be wrong on that .
how much is he asking for it?

Mike Ward

Forgive my being blunt, but this is a classic case of lambs to slaughter. This car is probably one of the most desirable combos of it's era and I'm betting is priced accordingly. The dealer's advertising makes it sound 'perfect' and the pictures make many a man start thinking with his trouser brain and rush in with cash before someone else gets it.

Many have done exactly this only to find later that their dream car is nowhere near what they assumed and they've overpaid by tens of thousands.

Being that you were not aware that four wheel disk and removable rear window are standard features and not options I'm guessing that you are not familiar with C3 cars. This leaves litte chance that even a close up and personal inspection by yourself will disclose whether this car matches the illusion.

Some quick points:

Ignition shielding is missing in part.


NCRS does not certify cars.

Never seen any letter with such wording. That's not what the NCRS does. Got a copy? How do you know the engine in the car now is the one referred to?

Bottom line:

Hire a qualified inspector to look at the car while you follow him around.

tokim

Can't improve on the information/advise given by Mike Ward..you'd be wise to follow it.

Solid LT1

If it is a 72 Vette the 5th digit of the VIN# will be an "L" code for LT-1 looks like it has the single 3/8" fuel line, the tach redline is good, the PCV hose on drivers side valve cover is wrong - missing lines from evaporative fuel canister, oil filler cap is wrong, alternator either has too big of a V belt or pulley is wrong, the oil pan appears to be a 6QT trap door pan usually only found on 70 LT-1 or ZR-1 models also doesn't have power steering with this oil pan. The VIN# will tell you all you need to certify it as a real LT-1 if your intent is suffering through NCRS judging you should make darn sure that motor, carb, alternator and smog systems are correct date codes!

vettebuyer6369

Mike Ward pointed out everything I was going to say. I dont believe you will inspect this car properly. Get a Corvette Person, with Corvette experience, to look at this car FOR you. I suspect the price is up there.

levrac68

The vin has the L... I've negotiated to 28k and have an independant appraiser heading there today. The car is not on the high end of the market for an lt1. I've been looking for a few months now and while I'm not the foremost authority on c3s, I can make my way around somewhat comfortably as far as mechanical inspection. Ay other observations are very much appreciated.

TY

20mercury

Beautiful Corvette and IMHO you are in the right price ballpark if all claims prove to be true. Agree qualified Corvette C3 inspector is best when trading big bucks. Even if some of this does not match, that is ok, the key is to know exactly what you are getting and paying a fair market price for it. Hope this helps and best of luck to you.

Here is a nice LT-1 list, I saved from this forum
There are a few things that only a LT-1 would have , some are pretty easy to change out and some are not very easy at all.in no piticular order.

1st. No 1970 or 1971 LT-1 had A/C

2nd. Emmission sticker on fire wall behind master cylinder should have letters AX on upper left corner for a 71.

3rd. All LT-1's are 4 speeds. (M20 was std , M21/M22 were optional)

4th. Tach has 6,500 RPM red line on 1970 & 1971 and on 72's w/o AC

5th. All 71 LT-1's came with A.I.R. system. If removed should still have manifolds with holes for the tubes, Car may have headers and if so ask to see old manifolds.

6th. LT-1's had copper radiator W/O a overflow canisiter on the passanger side fenderwell. There should also be no holes whers one had been mounted.


7th. All 70 / 71 LT-1's had Tranisitor Ign. system. That may have been removed. But if it is removed look for the 3 holes on the front face of the driver side inner fender well where the Amplifer box was mounter.

Take a flashlight and look in front of the front wheel or open hood and look at it from the front side. 2 holes on bottom and 1 on top.


8th. Should have a Winters snowflake intake manifold with casting # 3959594


9th. LT-1's had a Holley carb. so there is only 1 fuel line , no return line like a quadra-jet carb. Look along frame rail on passanger side for the single line. Also the fuel tank is different. There should be no nipple on the passanger side, side wall for a return line.

If you lay on your back under the rear wheel you can reach your hand up and feel for an indention on the passanger side. If there is a nipple that is capped off , then beware.

Also the single fuel line on a LT-1 was not the same line that was used to feed fuel on the 2 line set up. So if someone removed the return line the look of the 3/8 line is still different. Not a big difference but if you can look at a car with a 2 line set up then you can see what you do not want to find.

10th. LT-1's had solid lifters , but if the car does not then that is not to big a red flag. Many people do not like them and may have replaced with HYD. lifters during a rebuild.


11th. The hardest to fake and most expensive would be the 4 bolt main block. No # on the outside of the block can verify this.

Only way to verify is to remove the pan or have a lighted optical viewer and remove the drain plug.


12th. LT-1's use 2.5" exhaust pipes like the big block cars. But the manifolds were still 2" set up. So the pipes flair from 2 to 2.5" about 6 inches from the manifold. The exhaust hangar at the trans is also different. Look on line at the Corvette Central site and you can see both 2" and 2.5" hangars.

13th. As I recall the highest rear end gear was 3:36 if trans was a M20

And id Trans was a M21 or M22 the 3:55 was highest gear

M20 3:36 Economy

3:55 Standard

3:70 Performance


M21 / M22

3:55 Economy

3:70 Standard

4:11 Performance

14th. The 71 /71 LT-1 Aluminum valve covers should have a rubber oil cap not a twist in. These covers are very hard to find. All the catalouges sell the twist in cap style.

15th. LT-1's have the same heavy duty half shaft retainers as big block cars. look at the rear end side yokes, there should be caps with bolts. Base cars used U bolts with nuts.

16th. The rocker arms have a letter O stamped in them.

17th. The balancer on the crankshaft is an 8" unit not a 6"

That is all I know of. and you could not fake all of this and sell a car for a mid 20's price and be worth the effort / expense.

So until someone finds the lost records from St Louis anyone buying a no base model car will be going out on a limb at little unless you are buying from the original owner.

Mike Ward

28K for a '72 LT! is not chump change. Since this is well within original engine territory, I'd make sure it's the original engine. NCRS judging does not establish this.

Post a clear close up pic of the stamp pad.

ryanmh

You've already got the best information out there from the posts above questioning the NCRS claims, but I'm going to toss in a few more: I'm going to red flag you on those tires. Literally--as in do not drive. Goodyear has not made an outlined raised white letter tire in decades. I know because I wanted them well over a decade ago now, and they were not available even then.

I looked through the photos on Volo's website, and here are just a couple more: The vent closure ***** don't appear to match in the brightness/ possibly thickness of the script. I have this same issue, and it drives me nuts. It looks ridiculous. Not a big deal to fix, though. The console plate also has what looks like some wear and the vent closure **** arms are rusty. One of the screws that holds the plate on is not seated--possibly stripped. The driver's side door panel has a major scrape in the wood veneer. Some of the screws on the glove box and tool box door hinges look replaced with whatever was on the shelf. The paintwork, with all due respect, leaves me with a few questions. Image 51 which has a closeup of the crossed flags is what concerns me. I am pretty sure I can see glass strands through the paint, and I don't like that. To me, that isn't a "quality" repaint. "Quality" to me is flat. Period. They should have laid down more primer.

Now that I'm done picking on it, let me say that overall, it looks like a nice car. Those are minor complaints. The price seems fair, but I'll leave that up to those who know these later low-production cars better. Whether it is actually a 30k mile car ... who knows? I tend to be skeptical about 700 mile a year cars. A fiberglass car sits inside its whole life, almost never goes outside, and needs a repaint? Uh-huh. Not that the miles necessarily matter that much, but I wouldn't believe it without some good documentation. My 100,000 mile Camaro had less wear evident on the interior than this car, and my (presumed) 100,000+ mile Corvette is about the same.

What I would really ask to see is some engine documentation (unless you plan not to drive it much). Rebuilt when, and by whom? What was done?

EDIT: "Negotiated" to $28k? It is listed at $29.9k. After your inspector gets done and you start tacking up the "needs fixed" list for stuff that they said was fine, you should get that down some.... I would buy me a nice big block convertible for that money, unless you have a LT1 hangup. Although I do love that orange...

levrac68

Thanks for your replies...

I'm taking it all into consideration. I spoke to Gary Mortimer of the NCRS who stated exactly what has been posted. The dealer said he will fax me the paperwork.

I do have a concern regarding the engine rebuild and the solid lifters. I will try to post the videos sent by the dealer.

TY

levrac68

u

Chuck72

From viewing your posted pics:

Wrong valve covers
Missing the emissions sticker
Missing 90% of the ignition shielding. Car has only the top shielding and the two supports, everything else is mia.
Left rear strut rod is bent.

Lots of these kinds of things are to be expected when dealing w/a dealership.





While this link (completed listing, and purchased by a forum member) shows a car with less eye candy, the price is a bunch less.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1972-Chevrolet-Corvette-LT-1-/300954699029?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item46124c4515
For 28K, lack of an authentic stamp pad is an absolute deal breaker.

Alan 71

Hi ty,
It looks like a car that's worth you having it checked out by a person very knowlegible about LT-! cars.
Aside from the car being 'certified'....has it ever been Flight Judged? If so, are those judging sheets available to you?
Those sheets would help de-fuse the seller's hype.
Regards,
Alan

keithinspace

I'm curious. But I'm also dumb. I must be to toss out this question beckoned by my curiosity:

Is this car worth $28k or $30k.

Setting aside the 'newness' of the potential owner to the finer points of C3's (which I was guilty of to the 10th power when I purchased my car) and the almost silly description of the car by the seller...

This looks to be, on the surface, a very good looking car. If it IS NOT an LT-1, it would be on the high side of price for a clone given the dents and dings. If it IS a genuine LT-1, then it seems to be a pretty generous discount for the missing/lacking items that have been pointed out.

As far as the engine, it sounds like mine did before I adjusted the lash. And some of my valves were WAAAY out of adjustment. I'm no expert, but if I had to put a quarter on one side or another, I'd put that down as a solid lifter engine.

If it is a legit LT-1 and you are NOT interested in the NCRS or judging, this may be a nice car. A smidge high in price, but the 30k miles is attractive, too. Your call. A true LT-1 in this condition would be a steal at, say, $22k. But then a FAKE LT-1 (or a 'regular' '72) at this condition would/could be fair at $22k.

If you are looking for an "investment" car (whatever the hell that is) or if you are all up into the judging thing, it will take more than a few dollars to get this car to that point. It LOOKS good, but it isn't there.

levrac68

Seriously, I haven't seen any LT1s in decent condition under 25k. Has anyone dealt with the Volo auto sales?

Ironcross

If you're interested in LT-1`s because of performance, the correct Vette is the 1970... the later two years are only LT-1 in name only, not because of performance...But except for the price {too high} for a 72, it would be a good entry level car to the Vette Kingdom

Solid LT1

I used to sell Z/28 X-ram parts to a guy name Greg Graham at Volo Auto Museum many years back like the 1980's. They have been around for a long time and have a decent reputation in the automotive community. That Vette looks like a nice LT-1 missing some parts and I would bet the original carb is not on the motor, for a date correct carb, $750 to $1000. Price is fair I think but, what do I know........

You have to decide what your buying the Corvette for, if you want an LT-1 I would hope that you intend to do maintenance on it yourself, they are high maintenance cars with their Holley carbs and solid lifters but nothing brings a smile to my face quicker than winding out a LT-1 to over 6500RPM

Link:

dar322

i know someone who may be able to help with an inspection. He's 10 minutes from the museum.

Solid LT1

Are you an EXPERT? I think I can quailify better on the differences between a 70 LT-1 and the 71/72 LT-1's considering I have a 70 LT-1 roadster AND a 72 LT-1 coupe in my garage. THIS IS BS! The 70 is the fastest but, not on today's pump gas if your trying to run a 70 on todays rotten fuels, you wont get very far if you don't retard the ignition timing, castrating the 70 ignition curve to run on pump gas will put street performance right at the 71/72 LT-1 level. You will also be killing your motor everytime you shut if off by leaving the trans in gear and stopping the detonation by letting out the clutch (my wife is a PRO at this now, took me a while to teach her how.)

I also put around $1K into my vintage 70 cylinder heads on the motor rebuild to prevent valve recession from the lack of lubrication from todays unleaded fuels (PLEASE Mike Ward don't try to rebutt me, or I will start a thread with actual photos from my friend's machine shop showing cylinder head after head with destroyed valve seats, all on the exhausts due to lack of being properly hardened. Mike you don't have anywhere near the expirience or time around an auto machine shop that I do.)