BarryB72

My original 72 frame was rusty and had collision damage in the front. Back in 2007, before I knew anything really about my car, dad found me a good, rust free 4 speed frame around Pittsburgh that had good trailing arms - which to him made the deal a no brainer at $1200. We looked at the frame and the rear section had new paint. The guy said something along the lines of "It was under a car that caught on fire and we just painted the back end of the frame because the paint was gone. Would you believe we bought the story, and the frame? A year or so later, when I got around to putting the fuel and brake lines on it I noticed the frame had a dished out area along the rear of the inside frame rail (what were those for 75-76 guys?), and the lines I had were straight. I knew I had a problem. I didn't think having the lines that exposed was a good idea so I bent them to match the contour of the frame and thought I was in the clear. When the front frame extension holes didn't line up with the holes on the frame, however, I knew I was the proud owner of a chopped up mid 70's frame. At that point, though, it was a rolling chassis and I was not going to start over. After setting the body down on the frame for the first time, we noticed the frame was higher on one side by an inch, so $400 later I at least had a straight wrong frame. So a few minor adjustments later, like welding on the seatbelt support cable bracket and drilling holes for the front shroud brackets and the 72-73 only rear bumper brackets, its a solid straight, usable frame that is indeed getting used. So my question for today is - How big of a deal is this? For judging? For resale value? Would you even mention it if you were selling the car?

vettebuyer6369

My personal opinion is, if a seller absolutely, positively knew he replaced a frame and I caught wind of it, I would not believe a word he had to say after that.

Last summer I was shopping for a particular year car. I made many trips. I flew 800 miles out to New Jersey and I inspected a car on the garage floor with a flashlight, feeling the frame as I always do. I detected a welded seam in the front part of the side frame rail.

I gave the owner, a very knowledgable seller a chance to tell me about it. I even prodded him with, ''is there anything else I need to know?" He said no. I said "are you aware the driver's side has a complete replacement frame rail welded in?"

"Oh, yeah, my shop did that."

It was a nice job. I might have been able to live with it if he didn't lie to my face. I didnt care what he had to say at that point and flew home.

It's dirty.

BarryB72

Good point, and I feel your pain. Dad and I drove from western ohio to Rochester New York in the snow to look at an original engine ls6 chevelle. It was already dark when we got there but we weren't in that garage more than 5 minutes before we got back in the car. Dad must have known more about chevelle engines than corvette frames. . Anyway, I guess I was asking because I've heard that type of frame modification was a pretty common practice at some point and I do see people trying to sell the the back part of 68-73 frames, so it must still be going on. I guess if it ever comes time to sell it I'll know who does and doesn't care about it by who gives me a check.

MidShark

I'd say if you are that deep into it and you can make it work, I wouldn't give it another thought. Do you have any idea how many midyears are running around on C3 frames? I'll bet there are more than just a few. I would certainly disclose it as a seller, though. As a buyer, it would not concern me that much- but if it was replaced due to rust, I would then be concerned about what the birdcage of the car looked like. If yours is pretty clean, it should not be a deal breaker.

CA-Legal-Vette

To your original questions, will it affect the value? Yes but I think less than a rusty frame would. While there are certainly people out there that wouldn't mention it, I certainly would. I'd never want something like that coming back to me. Also, this is a hobby and a community and I like to think that we have higher ethical standards ( though that certainly varies ).

I can't speak to judging but I assume that an incorrect frame will have some deduction.

If it were me I'd simply disclose the work done. Seems like you picked a sound frame and straightened it professionally. If it looks good and tracks properly, I would let the buyer be the judge and not worry about it in the interim.

1974ta

Definitely disclose it to any potential buyer.

Here is my take. I know it is all assembled but if it was mine I would replace the frame with a correct frame if and only if it is a high dollar car. If it is a small block other than LT-1 leave it as it sits.

Take lots of pictures so any buyer is confident it is a solid frame. Bird cage rust is far worse than a good albeit incorrect frame.


Bill

Easy Mike

That's a matter of ethics. At sale time, you'll have to decide which way you'll go.

BarryB72

So I guess the only positive is if there was ever a bumper car you would want to drop onto an incorrect 4 speed frame, it would be mine. If it weren't for deluxe interior and power steering, they could have built mine without a build sheet.

Alan 71

Hi B72,
The fact that you mention this situation makes me think it bothers you.
I understand Bill's point but personally believe the same standards should be used on every car.
The frame situation will bother some owners and buyers, but others not at all.
I would hate to relate how far I've back-tracked to correct something I should have done correctly the first time.
I guess for me it's not so much what the car is, as it's the importance of doing things the right way.
There's a little sign in a garage I visit on occasion …. BETTER is the constant enemy of GOOD.
Regards,
Alan

BarryB72

The more I think about it, why would anyone come on here and self incriminate themselves by saying something like "heck no I wouldn't say anything!" That's why I like this forum better than some of the others I checked out. Most of the people on here seem educated and, for lack of better words, "civilized", when it comes to their posts.

tokim

If you can accept the fact that the value will be diminished, because of this frame situation..you will need to accept that it will effect the resale of the car if disclosed.

That being said..what is your own morale code? Would you be okay with not disclosing it?
I vote for accepting it as a de-valued car, and would definitely disclose it, if and when I sold it (anticipating a much harder sell).

540 vette

I would tell the buyer I installed a new frame because the original was rusted out. And leave it at that.

joewill

not much of all this matters, there is somewhat of an expectation that if a same year frame is purchased, that it will be a easy bolt in. in the OP's case no diligence to confirm that was done and there had to be selected adjustments to get it to work. no homework was done and the incorrect frame was purchased and then try to blame the seller.

but in the end if the replace and repair was done right then it doesn't matter. as long as the car is safe, legal and the repair is correct.
if a buyer requires that a car have the original frame then that should be discussed. if the buyer requires that a seller disclose every tiny flaw, then that should be discussed ahead of time also.

anytime a frame is replaced, I will always assume that there is extensive birdcage, windshield frame, radiator support rust that I expect to be remediated also on the car. I have never seen one without the other. replacement of the frame would actually steer me away from the buy unless the rest of the other rust is fixed also.

BarryB72

[QUOTE=j and then try to blame the seller.

.[/QUOTE]

Never tried to blame seller. He fed us a line, dad trusted him, I trusted my dad. To be sure, dad looks for that guy at every swap meet, but if you read between the lines you could see I am kicking myself, not the seller. The only reason I got the car in the first place was to help dad out financially, so I took it off his hands. Figured it would never be more than a driver and bought nothing but reproduction parts at first. Figured out people sold NOS stuff on ebay, started to care about originality, and now my attention to detail includes asking Alan where the snaps on his t-top bags are located. The only reasonable solution is to drive that thing until it needs another frame off, then deal with it then.

Thanks everybody.

Iceaxe

^^^THIS^^^

On resale I'd say it's all in the presentation. I'd just tell the buyer it was a frame off restoration and everything that needed fixing was either fixed or replace and that included the frame.