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Details needed on Pulling 4 speed Muncie out of 1973 vette
Oh wise members of the Corvette Forum. I need some help and advice on pulling my transmission.
I've scoured this and other forums and read what I found,
I've scoured the Internet for write ups,
I've watch an obscene number of YouTube videos on transmission rebuilds, installations, etc.,
I've reviewed the pictures on the AIM,
I recruited a strong friend,
I bought the required beer,
The car is up on a KwikLift so we have plenty of room,
The headers have been removed,
There is a bottle jack and 2x4 supporting the oil pan so I don't crack my distributor cap or bend the distributor itself when the engine tries to rotate backward;
The tranny has been drained.
The drive shaft has been removed.
The funky cable that goes up to the firewall has been detached.
The shifter ball and associated stuff inside the cockpit has been removed (ball, rod, spring, etc.) but the shaft is still sticking up through the tunnel.
.... but as my buddy Kevin and I laid there on the garage floor, looking up at the monstrosity that is the transmission crossmemeber, one question led to 3 others.
Questions:
Q1: Do we need to remove EVERYTHING from the outside of the transmission? My understanding is YES since it seems most write ups require the tranny being slide back and rotated 90 degrees towards the passenger side so you can get the input shaft past the opening in the bell housing.
Q2: Assuming this is the case, how in the world do you remove the linkages on the outside of the case. I'm 5'6". My hands are not big. I think my 9 year old would have problems getting a wrench on the nuts let alone removing them.
Q3: Are these nuts for the linkages removed from the top, while sitting inside the car?
Q4: Is there more room if the linkage mounting plate on the crossmember is removed first? (Did not try this...)
Q5: How do you get to the reverse light switch? Good night is it tight in there. I've never even actually seen it, just heard people mention where it is. It is a rumor, like the existence of a yeti.
Q5: When people say to block up the oil pan so the engine does not rotate and break things at the firewall and to remove the distributor do they mean remove the CAP or the entire distributor, guts and all?
I cannot believe automatics had removable crossmembers but the manuals are welded in place. (Granted, with the exhaust running through it, it might not make a difference.)
For what it is work, on a mechanics scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being a dog with no thumbs and 10 being Finnegan from Roadkill/Hot Rod magazine, I think I'm at least a 5 or 6. Ok and usually capable of removing, replacing, repairing and cleaning things but not going to do my own machine work or comfortable rebuilding an engine.
+++
Any advice that can me offered would be greatly appreciated.
Remove the trans rubber mount,the exhaust pipe support and front pipes,and the shifter bracket. The rear wheels must be free to turn so that the driveshaft and bolts on the tail-shaft U-joint can be rotated into position to loosen. With the trans in neutral, loop plastic wire ties around the tail shaft and thru the U-joint bolt holes to prevent the yoke from coming off and spilling oil. Remove the linkage by taking the shift arms off the trans by removing the retaining bolts. Remove the speedo cable, BU switch(take pictures of that little gem)and clutch linkage. Pull the distributor cap and mark the rotor position. Mark the dissy shaft and intake manifold for reassembly. Push the drive shaft out of the way and lower the engine slightly( not so much that you torque the engine mounts) using a bottle jack and wooden plate to distribute the weight. Remove the four 1/2" bolts and slide the trans back and rotate it. The input shaft will just clear the bellhouse. Get two 4" long 1/2" bolts from Home depot and cut the heads off. Slot the non-threaded ends like a giant screw. When it comes time to remount the trans, screw these bolts into the bottom mounting holes of the bellhouse, and use them as a guide to slide the trans into place. Easy as pie.
I removed the trans from a bare frame so I can offer only a small amount of information.
We had been moving a LS T56 around the garage and it was very heavy. My son and I were prepared for a lot of weight when we pulled the Muncie off the original engine. When it came free our reaction was Oh! this doesn't weigh anything! The Muncie can be carried easily by one person. The beer will be consumed anyway.
Everything can be done from down under.
The shifter is mounted to the frame.
Get the rear trans mount out and drop the linkage from the trans.
Reverse is just a small link rod to the trans.
On top, take the shifter ball off and pull the reverse lockout lever out.
Speedo cable needs to come off and drive shaft.
The pan needs support. I use a jack and 2x4 under the pan.
You let the engine drop enough to get the trans out.
Hope this helps.
I have done this more than once, as a one man operation.
Terry
Trans weighs about 60 lbs.
If you're doing a clutch job try to find a old muncie input to align the clutch disc. The plastic ones supplied with the clutch leave too much slop.If you cant get trans to go in that last 1/2" DONT TRY TO PULL IT IN WITH THE BOLTS With trans on your homemade alignmet pins connect clutch linkage and have a buddy depres the clutch pedal while you slide trans in.
Use a bronze pilot bearing
Slotted bolts - absolutely. I thought I invented that idea, great minds, etc. etc. All good info here.
In my younger days I could pull the tranny out manually myself. Have since discovered that there is a thing called a transmission lift so I can still do this myself. What the transmission lift does is allow you to control both the height and angle of the transmission, the latter being very important. If you can borrow one somewhere the lift does all the work.
You may find that you will need to jack the motor up a bit to get the input shaft to clear. And to get at the bellhousing bolts it helps to be able to lower the motor a bit. So make sure your bottle jack will go both ways.
The linkage bolts are a bitch no two ways about it. I just unbolt and remove everything back there but it is just barely possible to get the tranny out with the linkage in. Not recommended by me.
When you put it back together be aware that there is an alignment slot for the shifter gates. Best to check that you haven't disturbed things. It's possible to get two gears engaged at once with the transmission completely locked up if things are misaligned enough. That is not fun if it happens on the road.
Ok, I'm back at the transmission pull. These write-ups have helped. Thank you.
Jnb5101 wrote:
"Remove the trans rubber mount,the exhaust pipe support and front pipes,..."
Front pipes? I have no front pipes. My exhaust pipes go through the cross member and continue on until the mufflers. They are tack welder to the exhaust pipe support.
Q1: Do you mean remove the support bolts or the "front" pipes themselves too? I'd have to cut the pipes to do so. Someone put hedman headers on it so I'm not looking at stock components.
Q2: I've got the shifter loose at all points and can freely move it around. Can or should it come out prior to tranny removal? I can't get it past the crossmember. It is close but hits it or hangs up on the shifter inside the cockpit.
I assume it stays in. If it comes out prior to tranny removal, this might get back to my exhaust pipe issue.
By 'front pipes" I mean from the collectors to the crossmember. There should be a joint just in front of the crossmember with a U clamp that attaches the exhaust pipes to the hanger. Loosen the clamp and collector bolts, pull the exhaust system rearward slightly(remove the rear hangers if needed) and wiggle the collector end of the exhaust pipe. That will loosen the joint and allow you to remove the front section. That will give you much better access to the trans.
It is beginning to make sense. I DON'T have these clamps; my pipes are welded to the front hanger bracket.
I have no "front pipes" but one continuous exhaust pipe for each side. I'll double check but will probably have to cut the pipe downstream of the crossmember to get everything out.
There is a special place in hell for the person who did this.
By 'front pipes" I mean from the collectors to the crossmember. There should be a joint just in front of the crossmember with a U clamp that attaches the exhaust pipes to the hanger. Loosen the clamp and collector bolts, pull the exhaust system rearward slightly(remove the rear hangers if needed) and wiggle the collector end of the exhaust pipe. That will loosen the joint and allow you to remove the front section. That will give you much better access to the trans.
Thank you for you additional input. See my last note.
I now see why I cam confused; mine is no longer set up as stock! Time to be a bit creative! Thanks again.
You are almost there, stay the course.
As you have discovered, the exhaust is going to have to come out, or at least at the bare minimum, take out the passenger side pipe. If you have had a hankering for side-pipes, well here is a great opportunity.
Lots of great advice above, and I don't have much else to share other than I feel your pain, or at least felt it 4 years ago.
When I put mine back together I put in a hurst shifter and removed the steering column interlock.
May also want to consider changing your positive battery cable when the trans is out. You can do it with it in place, but with it and the driveshaft out, it will be cake.
The Vettes i've worked on either had side pipes or the exhaust removed which gives you better access to things.
When I replaced my frame I used one from an automatic car so i have a removable cross member..makes things much easier.
When I do mine I place a jack with a piece of plywood under the oil pan to support the rear of the motor.
place a scissor jack under the trans to support the weight when i remove the trans mount, Shifter, Back up light connection, Reverse lock out cable, Clutch linkage, drain the trans fluid, disconnect driveshaft.
Then I undo the 4 trans bolts and manhandle the trans out of the car...bench pressing muncies can be fun :-)
The Vettes i've worked on either had side pipes or the exhaust removed which gives you better access to things.
When I replaced my frame I used one from an automatic car so i have a removable cross member..makes things much easier.
When I do mine I place a jack with a piece of plywood under the oil pan to support the rear of the motor.
place a scissor jack under the trans to support the weight when i remove the trans mount, Shifter, Back up light connection, Reverse lock out cable, Clutch linkage, drain the trans fluid, disconnect driveshaft.
Then I undo the 4 trans bolts and manhandle the trans out of the car...bench pressing muncies can be fun :-)
This might be a stupid questions BUT, is it possible to get the shifter, shifter mounting bracket and linkage rods out as one unit WITH the transmission in the car? I cannot yet but it might be due to the fact my hanger support is still welded to my exhaust pipes. Gonna take care of that little problem very soon.
If you can't take it out as one unit (shifter, shifter mounting bracket and linkage rods) with the tranny in the car, can I remove the tranny with the entire unit in the car?
Finally, if the answer is NO to the above 2 questions, I assume I have to pull the bolt at the bottom of the shifter and figure out the orientation after the fact.
The linkage bolts are a bitch no two ways about it. I just unbolt and remove everything back there but it is just barely possible to get the tranny out with the linkage in. Not recommended by me.
When you put it back together be aware that there is an alignment slot for the shifter gates. Best to check that you haven't disturbed things. It's possible to get two gears engaged at once with the transmission completely locked up if things are misaligned enough. That is not fun if it happens on the road.
Good luck
Same questions as above....
This might be a stupid questions BUT, is it possible to get the shifter, shifter mounting bracket and linkage rods out as one unit WITH the transmission in the car? I cannot yet but it might be due to the fact my hanger support is still welded to my exhaust pipes. Gonna take care of that little problem very soon.
If you can't take it out as one unit (shifter, shifter mounting bracket and linkage rods) with the tranny in the car, can I remove the tranny with the entire unit in the car? It looks like a maybe but not ideal. I think I'd have to zip tie them up and out of the way.
Finally, if the answer is NO to the above 2 questions, I assume I have to pull the bolt at the bottom of the shifter and figure out the orientation after the fact.
+++
Thanks again everyone.
The shifter and it's bracket cannot be removed with the tranny in place-at least I can't do it. But the tranny can be removed with the shifter attached to the bracket if the bracket is loosened from the crossmamber and the whole unit is pushed out of place. But it's easier to remove the bracket from the shifter. It's a tight squeeze, but you can reach those two bolts! The first time I did this, when I was reinstalling the shifter, I got the dog on the end of the shift rod locked in front of the sliders. The dog should fit in the notches of the sliders so that the control arms move(you'll see what I mean when you examine the shifter). The shift handle was laying back at about a 45* angle. It took me a while to figure out what I had done! While you have access to the bottom of the shifter, look for the 3/8" semi-circle notches. When the shifter is in neutral and the guide pin is inserted into the alignment slot, these semi-circles will line up. Paint them white so that the shifter can be aligned without having to insert the guide pin-that's something I've never been able to do with the shifter mounted.
is it possible to get the shifter, shifter mounting bracket and linkage rods out as one unit WITH the transmission in the car
I remove it as an assembly on mine, I unbolt the shift levers from the trans, unbolt the bracket from the crossmember and remove the shift ****, reverse lockout lever inside the car.
However I have a removable crossmember on mine so it changes the whole game plan...I have the crossmember and Exhaust system removed when i do mine.
Odd semi related question. I am putting the engine and 4spd back in my 68. Can this be done as a single unit? I have the two ton hoist and plenty of ceiling space and was hoping to do it as one piece. Radiator and shroud are out of the car and it looks like plenty of room to do this. Anyone have experience with this?
07-21-2014, 06:14 PM
Details needed on Pulling 4 speed Muncie out of 1973 vette
