What to spend (and not spend) - the eternal how low / how high question...
09-20-2014, 01:38 AM
#1
Intermediate
Thread Starter
What to spend (and not spend) - the eternal how low / how high question...
First of all, greetings! After owning a 1967 Camaro in the past, I'm now on the hunt for a 1969 Corvette Stingray convertible. I've assured my wife it's not a mid-life crisis, and she responded by saying that she likes black, and if i'm going to get one, it should have side pipes (love that woman!).
That said... I've read about pricing in general, and how as we move into winter months, some folks have seen some drops on C3's, esp in the northeast and colder climes.
I haven't hit the lottery yet, so a $50k car is out - however I have friends who have wrestled with (and spent $ on ground up projects), and "ain't nobody got time for that" - and by nobody, I mean me...
So I'm looking in the $20-$25k range. I'm not planning at any point to go the NCRS route, and while #s matching has a romantic appeal (and resale nudge), it's not a requirement for me either.
I've looked at a few, including the following, however it's def got some paint / body work needed (bit of a crunch on the underside fender on one side, plus numerous chips / bad touchups): http://www.usedcorvettesforsale.com/...oadster--61030
I'm looking into having it inspected, mainly because I've looked at it already, gotten a sense of what it's probably worth, and I can use the experience of a second opinion to understand what I missed and how that affects things.
At what point, though do you recommend "don't go below x" because it'll be more of a project (in general) than I really want - for example, is $20k the basement (above pure project cars)? It seems there's more than a few #'s matching drivers (just not colors I like) for between $22-$25k.
While I could pay $5k to get some paint and body work done, if it's not # matching anyway, is it really worth it? Or better to shoot for $25k and find something more done?
A lot of questions I know. I've been lurking, but time to ask some questions so I can legitimately be part of the gang with an actual car (and so my wife can drive it, too!).
Thank you!
That said... I've read about pricing in general, and how as we move into winter months, some folks have seen some drops on C3's, esp in the northeast and colder climes.
I haven't hit the lottery yet, so a $50k car is out - however I have friends who have wrestled with (and spent $ on ground up projects), and "ain't nobody got time for that" - and by nobody, I mean me...
So I'm looking in the $20-$25k range. I'm not planning at any point to go the NCRS route, and while #s matching has a romantic appeal (and resale nudge), it's not a requirement for me either.
I've looked at a few, including the following, however it's def got some paint / body work needed (bit of a crunch on the underside fender on one side, plus numerous chips / bad touchups): http://www.usedcorvettesforsale.com/...oadster--61030
I'm looking into having it inspected, mainly because I've looked at it already, gotten a sense of what it's probably worth, and I can use the experience of a second opinion to understand what I missed and how that affects things.
At what point, though do you recommend "don't go below x" because it'll be more of a project (in general) than I really want - for example, is $20k the basement (above pure project cars)? It seems there's more than a few #'s matching drivers (just not colors I like) for between $22-$25k.
While I could pay $5k to get some paint and body work done, if it's not # matching anyway, is it really worth it? Or better to shoot for $25k and find something more done?
A lot of questions I know. I've been lurking, but time to ask some questions so I can legitimately be part of the gang with an actual car (and so my wife can drive it, too!).
Thank you!
09-20-2014, 02:21 AM
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You might provide more info.
You said the wife likes black. Do you have color preferences? As someone who spent a couple years looking for a black '69 roadster that didnt used to be green, that can be a difficult and pricey choice.
Whether you care or not if the color matches the trim tag also affects price. And of course, whether is a year-correct color at all.
What about options? Real AC will jump the price of a roadster. Other options will increase the price, too. Are there dealbreakers?
How do you feel about less than perfect paint or interior? Spending < $20k might sound like a good idea at the time, but a quick $10k on paint or $5k for interior changes all that in a hurry.
I see the maroon car you suggest has custom style sidepipes. Is that what you want? That could make a potential buy cheaper. On the other hand, real '69 sides with the real valances properly prepared will be more expensive.
That car also seems to have a lot of speed shop add ons to the engine compartment. These will generally surpress cost, although I cant see the picture very well.
Your question is very general and its hard to give you a dollar guide until you lock in to what you want or are considering.
I will say, the old adage of "always buy as much car as you can afford" is a good rule... except when you go home and spend money on the car anyway. Have a real good idea what you want and what you are buying.
You said the wife likes black. Do you have color preferences? As someone who spent a couple years looking for a black '69 roadster that didnt used to be green, that can be a difficult and pricey choice.
Whether you care or not if the color matches the trim tag also affects price. And of course, whether is a year-correct color at all.
What about options? Real AC will jump the price of a roadster. Other options will increase the price, too. Are there dealbreakers?
How do you feel about less than perfect paint or interior? Spending < $20k might sound like a good idea at the time, but a quick $10k on paint or $5k for interior changes all that in a hurry.
I see the maroon car you suggest has custom style sidepipes. Is that what you want? That could make a potential buy cheaper. On the other hand, real '69 sides with the real valances properly prepared will be more expensive.
That car also seems to have a lot of speed shop add ons to the engine compartment. These will generally surpress cost, although I cant see the picture very well.
Your question is very general and its hard to give you a dollar guide until you lock in to what you want or are considering.
I will say, the old adage of "always buy as much car as you can afford" is a good rule... except when you go home and spend money on the car anyway. Have a real good idea what you want and what you are buying.
09-20-2014, 07:39 AM
#3
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Thank you for your advice!
You might provide more info.
You said the wife likes black. Do you have color preferences? As someone who spent a couple years looking for a black '69 roadster that didnt used to be green, that can be a difficult and pricey choice.
Whether you care or not if the color matches the trim tag also affects price. And of course, whether is a year-correct color at all.
You said the wife likes black. Do you have color preferences? As someone who spent a couple years looking for a black '69 roadster that didnt used to be green, that can be a difficult and pricey choice.
Whether you care or not if the color matches the trim tag also affects price. And of course, whether is a year-correct color at all.
>> Great question, and fortunately I like black as well As you pointed out, finding an original black so far has been a trick. (Both black and burgundy will work for me, and while it'd be nice if it was a trim tag match, I'm ok if it's not.)
At a macro level, what I can see easily happening (and I've seen the warnings - lol), is that if I got something for $20k, I'm prob going to wind up spending at least another $10 over time to add/fix/modify over time - and then if I sell later, I'll likely only get back the original $ with a little extra). So I'm trying to be realistic about what I'll need to spend, and how that might translate to $ on the back end.
What about options? Real AC will jump the price of a roadster. Other options will increase the price, too. Are there dealbreakers? As you pointed out, finding an original black so far has been a trick. (Both black and burgundy will work for me, and while it'd be nice if it was a trim tag match, I'm ok if it's not.)At a macro level, what I can see easily happening (and I've seen the warnings - lol), is that if I got something for $20k, I'm prob going to wind up spending at least another $10 over time to add/fix/modify over time - and then if I sell later, I'll likely only get back the original $ with a little extra). So I'm trying to be realistic about what I'll need to spend, and how that might translate to $ on the back end.
>> I def like AC, and doesn't have to be real. Down in FL, it's hot enough, and black doesn't help - lol - so any air will be great
How do you feel about less than perfect paint or interior? Spending < $20k might sound like a good idea at the time, but a quick $10k on paint or $5k for interior changes all that in a hurry.>> This is the area where I don't mind "not perfect", but... I've got my limits 
For this car, as an example, there's a spot or two that almost looks like nailpolish was used to touch up. I'll have a strong desire to repaint the whole thing (even though I like the burgundy). With the crack up front, there's at least a few areas that would need paint - and if I got it cheap enough, I could see dropping $5k to get decent driver paint. If I could avoid that, would be nice. I'm less a stickler for interior.
I see the maroon car you suggest has custom style sidepipes. Is that what you want? That could make a potential buy cheaper. On the other hand, real '69 sides with the real valances properly prepared will be more expensive. For this car, as an example, there's a spot or two that almost looks like nailpolish was used to touch up. I'll have a strong desire to repaint the whole thing (even though I like the burgundy). With the crack up front, there's at least a few areas that would need paint - and if I got it cheap enough, I could see dropping $5k to get decent driver paint. If I could avoid that, would be nice. I'm less a stickler for interior.>> At some point, whatever car I get will have side pipes, but not expecting factory. So either car will have them, or I'll add them myself. At $500-$1000 new for base pair on Eckler, I'm keeping in mind it won't be too hard to add later if I found the right car.
That car also seems to have a lot of speed shop add ons to the engine compartment. These will generally surpress cost, although I cant see the picture very well.>> Sorry about pic quality, unfortunately as good a shot as it gets. I know it's not #s matching, and sounds decent (looking into places to get an inspection as we speak).
Your question is very general and its hard to give you a dollar guide until you lock in to what you want or are considering.>> Completely understood, and I appreciate being willing to share your advice! The big part I'm trying to get a handle on, for this car or any other I stumble across, is if I'm ok with non # matching, is there a realistic baseline of "a driver that needs paint, 'typical' work, is going to run me "x" if I were to line up 10 cars with diff issues, but all the same general quality.
>> Let's say that's $15k-$17k - if I could buy a daily driver with already decent paint, let's say $20k-$24k, does it make more sense to buy the car that's already painted at $20k, or to get one at $15k and pay the $5k to do the pain (because then I'll know that the paint is solid from the point that I've owned it)
I will say, the old adage of "always buy as much car as you can afford" is a good rule... except when you go home and spend money on the car anyway. Have a real good idea what you want and what you are buying.>> Greatly appreciate your insight! I know there's no "right" answer (though often there are "run away" answers, like there would be with rust, for me, for example... lol
09-20-2014, 08:08 AM
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Hi macg,
Welcome! Glad you found CF.
It appears you've given this car business a lot of serious thought already.
In addition, Vb has given you a lot of information based on your first post.
I'll only add that you are thinking about what is pretty much the most desirable of 68-72 cars… a 69, side-pipe, convertible.
Good examples of these are not cheap…. people know what they have. If one appears to be cheap or even a good deal, there's likely a reason.
You really have to be VERY careful. There are really lousy cars for little money, there are lousy cars for too much money, there are good cars for reasonable money, there are terrific cars for too much money.
I think you need to talk to someone who knows 69 cars VERY well and can help you understand the differences between these cars and what you can expect to get and pay for 69 cars. Those people are around and can help educate you.
Good Luck!
Regards,
Alan
I don't think you can add a real 69 side exhaust system to a car with under car exhaust for anything near $500-$1000.
Welcome! Glad you found CF.
It appears you've given this car business a lot of serious thought already.
In addition, Vb has given you a lot of information based on your first post.
I'll only add that you are thinking about what is pretty much the most desirable of 68-72 cars… a 69, side-pipe, convertible.
Good examples of these are not cheap…. people know what they have. If one appears to be cheap or even a good deal, there's likely a reason.
You really have to be VERY careful. There are really lousy cars for little money, there are lousy cars for too much money, there are good cars for reasonable money, there are terrific cars for too much money.
I think you need to talk to someone who knows 69 cars VERY well and can help you understand the differences between these cars and what you can expect to get and pay for 69 cars. Those people are around and can help educate you.
Good Luck!
Regards,
Alan
I don't think you can add a real 69 side exhaust system to a car with under car exhaust for anything near $500-$1000.
Last edited by Alan 71; 09-20-2014 at 08:11 AM.
09-20-2014, 08:51 AM
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That would be a personal choice for you, but why dismiss NCRS possibility right from the beginning? Why impose limits on what you might be able to do?
Never. Evaluate each potential buy for what it is. If you set an arbitrary figure and tell yourself nothing at or below that asking price would be worth looking at, you could potentially miss a nice car.
Good luck with the hunt.
...At what point...do you recommend "don't go below x" because it'll be more of a project...
Good luck with the hunt.
09-20-2014, 09:05 AM
#6
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Thank you for taking the time to share!
Hi macg,
Welcome! Glad you found CF.
It appears you've given this car business a lot of serious thought already.
In addition, Vb has given you a lot of information based on your first post.
I'll only add that you are thinking about what is pretty much the most desirable of 68-72 cars… a 69, side-pipe, convertible.
Good examples of these are not cheap…. people know what they have. If one appears to be cheap or even a good deal, there's likely a reason.
You really have to be VERY careful. There are really lousy cars for little money, there are lousy cars for too much money, there are good cars for reasonable money, there are terrific cars for too much money.
I think you need to talk to someone who knows 69 cars VERY well and can help you understand the differences between these cars and what you can expect to get and pay for 69 cars. Those people are around and can help educate you.
Good Luck!
Regards,
Alan
I don't think you can add a real 69 side exhaust system to a car with under car exhaust for anything near $500-$1000.
Welcome! Glad you found CF.
It appears you've given this car business a lot of serious thought already.
In addition, Vb has given you a lot of information based on your first post.
I'll only add that you are thinking about what is pretty much the most desirable of 68-72 cars… a 69, side-pipe, convertible.
Good examples of these are not cheap…. people know what they have. If one appears to be cheap or even a good deal, there's likely a reason.
You really have to be VERY careful. There are really lousy cars for little money, there are lousy cars for too much money, there are good cars for reasonable money, there are terrific cars for too much money.
I think you need to talk to someone who knows 69 cars VERY well and can help you understand the differences between these cars and what you can expect to get and pay for 69 cars. Those people are around and can help educate you.
Good Luck!
Regards,
Alan
I don't think you can add a real 69 side exhaust system to a car with under car exhaust for anything near $500-$1000.
I also know that it's really easy to get emotional quick about cars like this! lol... but, but... it needs some love and tender care (yeah, so does my wallet!).
But - on the plus side - I do have a friend with a shop who has all the tools (he's helping the friend with the 67 Mustang, and he owns a 66 El Camino), so for things that are elbow grease related, I'm not too concerned.
I know there's body work that has to be done (small crunch up front from a curb), and def paint is needed (getting quotes for a driver-quality re-paint and basic body work).
Also just lined up an inspection by an impartial 3rd party to go over everything again (avoiding that emotion I mentioned earlier).
I can see the bones are all there to make it cool (has hard top, needs work, but at least it's there) - all those "well, at least it has (like the side pipes)" bits that make it not a "just walk away" (or go find a $25-$30k car) decision yet...
Thank you for letting a newbie ramble and learn!
09-20-2014, 09:13 AM
#7
Intermediate
Thread Starter
That would be a personal choice for you, but why dismiss NCRS possibility right from the beginning? Why impose limits on what you might be able to do?
Never. Evaluate each potential buy for what it is. If you set an arbitrary figure and tell yourself nothing at or below that asking price would be worth looking at, you could potentially miss a nice car.
Good luck with the hunt.
Never. Evaluate each potential buy for what it is. If you set an arbitrary figure and tell yourself nothing at or below that asking price would be worth looking at, you could potentially miss a nice car.
Good luck with the hunt.
It's part of the reason I'm still looking at the one I'm checking out. I'd seen another one in Orlando for $20k - and from 20 feet away - that's nice! And trim tag painted over, and (after crawling under) oh, my, look at those big rust holes!
Def dont' want to discount the NCRS side of things, and practical preference says "buy something that doesn't discount someone else from going down that path".
Too easy to try and rush into something, but also don't want to miss out on something where the bones of what I want are there, but it's going to take a while (and, of course, $) to get to that final vision.
Thank you!
09-20-2014, 09:48 AM
#8
Le Mans Master
Too bad you couldn't widen your choices. I understand the lust for a convertible, but have you ever driven or experienced a C3 Corvette coupe, with the T tops off? It may not be the vert experience, but it's not bad either. As far as value goes , that kind of money will get you a very nice '73 to '75 convertible if you look hard enough, or an outstanding coupe, for the simple reason, that they don't have the allure of having chrome bumpers, but the interiors are nearly identical! Also, those years did away with the vacuum operated wiper door and 74 was the first year for integrated lap and shoulder seat belts. But if you've got to have a '69, black convertible, good luck in your search. If you want something, really rare, try finding a 1974, BB car in Dark Metallic Brown! There are certain combos that are unique.
09-20-2014, 09:58 AM
#9
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Too bad you couldn't widen your choices. I understand the lust for a convertible, but have you ever driven or experienced a C3 Corvette coupe, with the T tops off? It may not be the vert experience, but it's not bad either. As far as value goes , that kind of money will get you a very nice '73 to '75 convertible if you look hard enough, or an outstanding coupe, for the simple reason, that they don't have the allure of having chrome bumpers, but the interiors are nearly identical! Also, those years did away with the vacuum operated wiper door and 74 was the first year for integrated lap and shoulder seat belts. But if you've got to have a '69, black convertible, good luck in your search. If you want something, really rare, try finding a 1974, BB car in Dark Metallic Brown! There are certain combos that are unique.
But it will be my driver 95% of the time, and I've had t-top jeeps, soft tops, and friends with t/targa-topped cars, and for me, it's time for a convertible
Plus, part of the attraction is that I was born in 1969, and there's something really cool about a car that's as old as me (well, yes, it's old, but but... look... it cleans up nice... and it's stylish like the Dos Equus guy - lol).
So what started as a "I'd like a 1969 Stingray vert" turned into my wife commenting (after a wander through a car show), wow, these 69's are really nice... and if we had one, we'd def have to get the side pipes (I think I fell in love with her all over again that day - lol). << Ha! Edit - I originally had side "popes" - and those are reaaaallly expensive <grin>)