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I'm not so much concerned about a front end collision but having once been on fire from the shoulders up by having gas sprayed on me I'd like the gas tank to be more protected than it is in a 68-73. Ever since that I'm pretty nervous around gasoline, I'm even still a little anxious whenever I pump gas myself at the gas station. In my '70 Torino the gas tank was just laid into a hole in the trunk floor making it possible for burning gas to enter the passenger compartment due to a rear end collision. That was always in the back of my mind when I drove that car.
I understand and respect that, in that case no matter what year I would look into things like fule cells and have extingushers at hand,
Originally Posted by Sunstroked
I doubt a single 68-72 owner will sell their car on the grounds, "it's not safe"
My sentiments exactly. All the old classic cars are vulnerable to collision damage. The vettes just crack the glass. I was surprised at just how much damage was hidden under the paint of my 72 once stripped. No fear though. 4 months of effort resulted in a solid car again. I can tell u this, there was some hack body men who did the old repairs.
, we ride a VW trike a fair amount, basically no collision protection, I have seen old vettes repaired with things ranging from door screen to street signs, any year vette if hit and not even all that hard will get damage, all we can do it try to keep ourselves as self as possible and enjoy the car.
Even if you find a solid chrome car, mine was $8k, installing all the new parts, rebuilding original pieces, and updates, will set u back more than a pristine already done car will. At least mines bought and paid for.
There was a time when cats would score barn finds or whatever pay tall dollars to get them restored and then sell them for even taller dollars, those days are gone, unless the car is some rare sought after creature then a person can go buy one that is turn key and pristine for far less, I see it as my car is not an investement, it's a car for me to drive and enjoy so any money I drop in it I will get back ten fold having a good time, I see people pay more than going rate for cars something but if it's just what the buyer wants I think thats worth it too
Even if you find a solid chrome car, mine was $8k, installing all the new parts, rebuilding original pieces, and updates, will set u back more than a pristine already done car will. At least mines bought and paid for.
But that pristine already done car won't be to my liking. I'll still need to paint it hot pink, put in power options, and a silver 79 interior. Add that to the cost of a pristine already done car and I'll be way further ahead to start with an 8k project car that's 8k because it needs the new interior, paint, power options, and drivetrain I'd be needing to put in either car.
I realize most people don't think much of what will happen if their car is in an accident, but because of my experience I do. I'm not saying my concerns are unrealistic but rather that I think more realistically of risk than most people do.
There's no point in paying the big bucks for a pristine already done 68/69 when I'm just going to look at it and say "Now I need to tear it down, start all over again and spend another 15-20k to get it the way I want".
I also understand your anxiety about gasoline, but it never bothered me, as I was a "suicide jockey" for over 10 years, pulling a 9500 gallon gasoline tanker. But then again, I only had one fire in all those years, and it wasn`t me. Oddly enough, it was a female station attendant who lit her cigarette right under the vent pipes while I was unloading at her station!
My brother in-law is a truck driver and some years ago was telling me about the shortage of drivers and suggested I might want to give it a try. I told him I would be interested but not if there was any chance I had to haul gasoline, diesel or any flammable liquid.
My brother in-law is a truck driver and some years ago was telling me about the shortage of drivers and suggested I might want to give it a try. I told him I would be interested but not if there was any chance I had to haul gasoline, diesel or any flammable liquid.
It`s just like hauling anything else, once you get used to the liquid sloshing around. But sharing your story makes it easier to understand you wanting to beef up the structure of the car around the gas tank.
However, I`m sure you`re aware, there`s a fine line between "respect" for the dangers of anything, and the "fear" of the dangers.
That healthy respect leads you to review your driving style, be aware of your surroundings, read the road ahead.... I think they call it "defensive driving".
The fear causes you to not drive the car so much, not enjoy when you do drive it, spend lots of time, energy, & money making changes that may not be needed.... even if we can justify them to ourselves.
I`m simply saying, KNOW where that line is for you..... it is easy to cross, and will inevitably cheat yourself out of a lot of good times!
This is all easy for me to say, having not been through your particular experience, I know.
Yes, I'm probably a little more nervous than necessary but I've always been a worrier and a bit of a pessimist (bonus though, I read that statistically pessimists live longer than optomists, lol). If I do go ahead with this I'll try to keep in mind that I've never heard of an early C3 getting rearended and causing a fire.
So, I made some estimates for the various options to get me a chrome bumper car with pace car silver interior loaded with options. The first option is to buy a 69 Corvette project car needing paint and interior and then buy the 79 parts to convert it. The estimates for that option are as follows:
8000 U.S. - 69 project car
4000 U.S. - travel and lodging car shipping to Canada
1300 U.S. - Aftermarket A/C unit
1000 U.S. - glass roof panels
4000 U.S. - pace car interior
600 U.S. - 78-82 gauge clusters
500 U.S. - 78-82 tilt/tele steering column
1600 U.S. - parts shipping
1000 U.S. - 78-82 doors complete
300 U.S. - 73-79 hood with latches
1200 U.S. - shipping hood and doors
--------
23500 U.S.
27025 CDN - plus 15% exchange U.S. to CDN $
28650 CDN - plus 6% gst
1000 CDN - motor suitable for rebuilding
1000 CDN - miscellaneious repairs
600 CDN - tires
--------
31250 CDN - total cost not including paint
Now to finance a 69 project with 79 interior and components I could sell my 79 which is a real nice all original L82 4 spd car, 60,000 miles and loaded with options, or as my husband suggested, shameful as it sounds, I might be better off to part it out given all the 79 parts I'd be using for a 69. I estimate the savings I'd achieve on the 69 project if I parted out my '79 rather than selling it and buying '79 parts independently as follows:
Parting out my 79 saves the following costs on a 69 project:
1000 U.S. - glass roof panels
1900 U.S. - interior parts from my 79 I can dye silver or which are already silver (still need to buy door panels, seat covers, armrests, and sun visors)
600 U.S. - 78-82 gauge clusters
500 U.S. 78-82 tilt/tele steering column
1000 U.S. - 78-82 doors complete
300 U.S. - 73-79 hood with latches
1200 U.S. shipping hood doors
1300 U.S. - aftermarket A/C unit
1300 U.S. - parts shipping
-------
9100 U.S. - total savings if my 79 is parted out
10465 CDN - total savings including 15% exchange U.S. to CDN $
10657 CDN - total savings including 6% GST
1000 CDN - savings on motor
1000 CDN - savings on miscellaneous repairs
650 CDN - savings on tires
---------
13250 CDN - savings on 69 project if I part out my 79
18000 CDN - estimated total cost of converting 69 project to 79 interior if I part out my '79 (less paint)
While it would be a shame to part out a real nice '79 to build a '69 project it would appear to be a sound idea from a financial perspective. Not only would I save over $13000 CDN on the 69 project which is likely more than I could sell my 79 for it would be far less hassel to have all the '79 parts I need in my backyard rather than chasing all over North America for them and then probably finding I need all manner of screws, bolts, clips, and whatnot I didn't get with the '78-82 parts I would have to buy.
Cost estimates to convert my 79 to 68/69 front end and 70-73 rear end
The other option to get the chrome bumper car I want with a pace car interior is to put 69 front clip and 70 rear clip on my 79. The estimated costs to go this route are:
Converting my '79 to chrome bumpers and 68/69 front clip
2700 U.S. - bumper assemblies, grills, brackets, etc.
1400 U.S. - 68/69 hand laid fiberglass front clip
1000 U.S. - 70-73 partial rear clip
540 U.S. - pace car door panels
140 U.S. - pace car arm rests
115 U.S. - pace car sun visors
900 U.S. - pace car seat covers and foam
200 U.S. - re-web seat belts in silver
2500 U.S. - shipping
-----------
9495 U.S. - total cost chrome bumper/pace car interior conversion
10920 CDN - total including 15% for conversion U.S. to CDN $
11575 CDN - total including GST 6% (less paint)
This is clearly the cheaper option although my hubby thinks its more labour. For me this option has the added bonus of not needing all the electrical work to make the 79 electrical system and A/C work in the 69. Hubby says that's trivial but to me its rather daunting. I know electricity flows from positive to negative, I know what an ohm is and if I thought about it long enough I could probably distinguish between volts and amps but that's about the extent of my "expertise" with electrical. I want to minimize how much I have to rely on my husband to create a chrome bumper car with a late C3 interior and I'd be relying on him pretty much entirely to do the electrical necessary to put a 79 interior in a 69. Converting the 79 to chrome bumpers involves a lot of body work but that stuff I'm comfortable with and would only need his help to to put the 68/69 front clip and 79 hood on and off my 79 several times.
While the thought of having an actual '69 is appealing and I might like the sugar scope rear window look slightly better than the bubble back window the bubble back window has the significant advantages of more luggage space (this will be our grocery getter), a rear window defroster, and it shows off the interior better.
This option has the added advantage that I'm starting with a known quantity, a car that has a solid frame, birdcage, solid and tight steering and suspension. With buying a 69 project and putting a 79 interior in it there's a lot more uncertainty associated with the costs estimates and a lot more risk associated with buying the 69 and all the parts it would need.
Buy some 1/8" thick sheetmetal or aluminum sheet, a wire-feed welder from Home Depot (w/gas bottle), a bladder the general shape of the original tank...(I installed bladdesr in the aviation field/no biggie)...and do like Bats......build it!
Then slap some extra support/removable-bolt-on cage around the tank (I already purchased the metal for my tank cage)
The welder will pay for itself the first day/learning how to weld with a wire-feed is easy.
Sheet metal.....$100
Bladder...........$200
Plumbing..........$50
Cage metal....$50
A week-end........N/C
"We don't need no stinking $4,000 fuel cell"...........You can do-it!
EDIT: Hmmmmmmmmmmm......as a matter-of-fact......the fill-hole with the ring removed from the top of the original tank is just the right size to insert a quality bladder...bladder retaining snaps could easily be installed into the tank walls (old aviation trick) before the bladder installation to hold the bladder in place! This would save the time/cost of building a custom tank. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm (maybe I should take my own advice)
Last edited by doorgunner; 12-18-2014 at 09:56 AM.
We have a well equipped garage with arc welder, mig, tig, and oxy-acetylene, so that's not a problem. But whats a fuel cell of 1/8" steel going to weigh? The $4000 fuel cell I looked at was a racing piece so presumably it was fairly lightweight. It had quite a list of safety featues but the one I liked best was that it was wrapped in Kevlar which I assume means it would be extremely unlikely to leak even if severely deformed by a crash. I also assume it would have some kind of high performance lid/cap that wouldn't blow off in an impact either. Not sure what I'd use if I built my own fuel cell that would give similar security. I'm going to give it some thought though.
With it being an estimated 7K cheaper to convert my 79 to chrome bumpers than to build a 69, that would pay for a 4k fuel cell but that's still a pretty painful bite out of the budget.
We have a well equipped garage with arc welder, mig, tig, and oxy-acetylene, so that's not a problem. But whats a fuel cell of 1/8" steel going to weigh? The $4000 fuel cell I looked at was a racing piece so presumably it was fairly lightweight. It had quite a list of safety featues but the one I liked best was that it was wrapped in Kevlar which I assume means it would be extremely unlikely to leak even if severely deformed by a crash. I also assume it would have some kind of high performance lid/cap that wouldn't blow off in an impact either. Not sure what I'd use if I built my own fuel cell that would give similar security. I'm going to give it some thought though.
With it being an estimated 7K cheaper to convert my 79 to chrome bumpers than to build a 69, that would pay for a 4k fuel cell but that's still a pretty painful bite out of the budget.
I really don't think you'll be doing the kind of driving/crashing that a race car would see (now...the Idiot that rear-ends US might be...LOL). Even if the tank is made of 1/8" thick sheet-steel that is 3 times that of an original tank, wouldn't the $3,000+ savings be worth the weight difference (like you said--there has to be a limit to the extent of safety devices/the extent of over-thinking solutions considering the history of Corvette fuel tanks).
BUT......
You guys "talked" me into adding a bladder if I can find a close-fit. (I'm going middle-of-the-road)
If it was under 200 lbs that'd be acceptable to me. But then I'd wonder about the capacity of the gas tank mount points to hold it. I'm going to think about it though and discuss with my husband.
10-13-2014, 12:35 PM
