Vin tag
12-22-2014, 05:10 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Vin tag
I am rebuilding a 69 and have bird cage rust. Would like to know if removing the vin tag and re installing it on a new pillar is a problem?
Thanks Chuck
Thanks Chuck
12-22-2014, 05:48 PM
#2
Melting Slicks
well Chuck, this topic seems to get everybody all wound up.
can't say I have or havn't done that.
can't say I have or havn't done that.
12-22-2014, 05:50 PM
#3
Drifting
I know that his who know more will chime in. I could see it being an issue if you were to sell the car eventually. People that see it may think something shady had happened to the car in the past. If I were to do it, I would document the process and make sure to retain the documentation in case anyone raises the question of what happened.
12-22-2014, 06:50 PM
#4
Team Owner
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Hi Chuck,
There are certainly some legal issues involved with this.
Have you checked to see how the state in which the car is registered would handle it?
Do you realize the tag was installed using an unusual 'rosette' rivet?
Is there ANY chance the portion of the a-pillar that the tag is on can be saved?
I'd certainly think you should carefully document whatever you do so that there's a clear record should a question arise.
Regards,
Alan
There are certainly some legal issues involved with this.
Have you checked to see how the state in which the car is registered would handle it?
Do you realize the tag was installed using an unusual 'rosette' rivet?
Is there ANY chance the portion of the a-pillar that the tag is on can be saved?
I'd certainly think you should carefully document whatever you do so that there's a clear record should a question arise.
Regards,
Alan
12-22-2014, 06:51 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
GO talk to 1) the state police and 2) the DMV. Get names, numbers and second opinions so that when you get pulled over, you will have a thick file in the glovebox. The officer will probably just throw his hands up and walk away. Seriously though. do not depend on ANYTHING you get off the internet. Go to the state department in charge of your MV>
12-23-2014, 09:07 AM
#6
Team Owner
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I agree with Alan. Look before you leap. Start with the DMV and determine exactly what you can and cannot do.
12-23-2014, 09:30 AM
#7
Safety Car
you are opening up a big can of worms here. never go to the police or the DMV and 'ask permission'. nothing positive will come of it.
the best advice to give you is to sell the car and start with another with more sturdy metal.
unless you intend to never sell the car and keep it forever after you are done. a questionable or rusty vin tag will always be a value hit. your car will sell but will be at a discount.
here's another point if view.. do what you want since the vin tag attachments/rivets are hidden behind the pillar post trim. no one will know until a few owners more down the line ever take that piece off.
the best advice to give you is to sell the car and start with another with more sturdy metal.
unless you intend to never sell the car and keep it forever after you are done. a questionable or rusty vin tag will always be a value hit. your car will sell but will be at a discount.
here's another point if view.. do what you want since the vin tag attachments/rivets are hidden behind the pillar post trim. no one will know until a few owners more down the line ever take that piece off.
Last edited by joewill; 12-23-2014 at 09:32 AM.
12-23-2014, 09:59 AM
#8
Racer
Thread Starter
you are opening up a big can of worms here. never go to the police or the DMV and 'ask permission'. nothing positive will come of it.
the best advice to give you is to sell the car and start with another with more sturdy metal.
unless you intend to never sell the car and keep it forever after you are done. a questionable or rusty vin tag will always be a value hit. your car will sell but will be at a discount.
here's another point if view.. do what you want since the vin tag attachments/rivets are hidden behind the pillar post trim. no one will know until a few owners more down the line ever take that piece off.
the best advice to give you is to sell the car and start with another with more sturdy metal.
unless you intend to never sell the car and keep it forever after you are done. a questionable or rusty vin tag will always be a value hit. your car will sell but will be at a discount.
here's another point if view.. do what you want since the vin tag attachments/rivets are hidden behind the pillar post trim. no one will know until a few owners more down the line ever take that piece off.
12-24-2014, 10:47 AM
#9
Team Owner
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Rosette VIN rivets are often visible, even with the post trim in place.
I am not suggesting this approach, but I did see it done once in a similar situation.
Rusty pillar section with VIN tag and rivets was cut out. Pillar section with rivets was cut apart so that the backside of the rivets could be accessed.
The rivets were "massaged" on the back side so that they could be pushed out from the back. Massaged means closed up with needle nose pliers.
New pillar was installed. Holes were drilled for VIN rivets, using old pillar as a template.
Vin plate was reinstalled using original rivets. Small holes were drilled on the back side of the pillar so that the backside of the rivets could be accessed with a punch. Rivets were "expanded" using the punch, with something on the front of the rivet being used as a dolly.
The holes on the backside of the pillar were then welded up and dressed and painted.
I am not suggesting this approach, but I did see it done once in a similar situation.
Rusty pillar section with VIN tag and rivets was cut out. Pillar section with rivets was cut apart so that the backside of the rivets could be accessed.
The rivets were "massaged" on the back side so that they could be pushed out from the back. Massaged means closed up with needle nose pliers.
New pillar was installed. Holes were drilled for VIN rivets, using old pillar as a template.
Vin plate was reinstalled using original rivets. Small holes were drilled on the back side of the pillar so that the backside of the rivets could be accessed with a punch. Rivets were "expanded" using the punch, with something on the front of the rivet being used as a dolly.
The holes on the backside of the pillar were then welded up and dressed and painted.
12-24-2014, 11:25 AM
#11
Safety Car
My family builds lots of hot rods, rat rods and owns a couple hot rod shops. My father in law owns a wrecking yard and is always building Frankenstein cars from several wrecks. The DMV in this state is extremely knowledgeable and helpful and will walk you through the process. One of my employee's went through a similar situation to the OP last year with a 34 Ford. The state assigned the car a new VIN number and VIN tag. They sent a guy out to inspect the car before work began and later to again inspect the car and install the new VIN tag. I was amazed at how simple and straight forward the process was.
So my advice is to call the DMV and tell them the problem and ask them how to solve it before starting. At least going that route you will be knowledgeable on the process and pitfalls ahead. If you live in Utah or a similar state this is a simple process.
Good luck.
Last edited by Iceaxe; 12-24-2014 at 11:28 AM.
12-24-2014, 07:06 PM
#12
Team Owner
If the metal under the VIN tag is rotted, you really have no choice but to remove it and reattach it later. Are you 'legal' in doing so? Well, probably not. But, since you are reinstalling it back on the same car, just do a good job of reattaching it and go on your merry way.
Who's going to know? And, you have not had any intent to defraud or do harm to anyone else. No harm....no foul, if you ask me.
If the metal under the VIN is solid, just mask it off well and work around it.
Who's going to know? And, you have not had any intent to defraud or do harm to anyone else. No harm....no foul, if you ask me.
If the metal under the VIN is solid, just mask it off well and work around it.
12-24-2014, 07:21 PM
#13
Race Director
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That is terrible advice... at least in Utah. Our DMV has a department that does nothing but handle this type of stuff.
My family builds lots of hot rods, rat rods and owns a couple hot rod shops. My father in law owns a wrecking yard and is always building Frankenstein cars from several wrecks. The DMV in this state is extremely knowledgeable and helpful and will walk you through the process. One of my employee's went through a similar situation to the OP last year with a 34 Ford. The state assigned the car a new VIN number and VIN tag. They sent a guy out to inspect the car before work began and later to again inspect the car and install the new VIN tag. I was amazed at how simple and straight forward the process was.
So my advice is to call the DMV and tell them the problem and ask them how to solve it before starting. At least going that route you will be knowledgeable on the process and pitfalls ahead. If you live in Utah or a similar state this is a simple process.
Good luck.
My family builds lots of hot rods, rat rods and owns a couple hot rod shops. My father in law owns a wrecking yard and is always building Frankenstein cars from several wrecks. The DMV in this state is extremely knowledgeable and helpful and will walk you through the process. One of my employee's went through a similar situation to the OP last year with a 34 Ford. The state assigned the car a new VIN number and VIN tag. They sent a guy out to inspect the car before work began and later to again inspect the car and install the new VIN tag. I was amazed at how simple and straight forward the process was.
So my advice is to call the DMV and tell them the problem and ask them how to solve it before starting. At least going that route you will be knowledgeable on the process and pitfalls ahead. If you live in Utah or a similar state this is a simple process.
Good luck.
People who are paranoid of Leo or dmv are in most cases up to something or another...
I talked with Florida DMV, you can not mess with a VIN tag ( in fl ) period, if it's rotted you show it to DMV or an officer they sign a paper and after the repair they issue you a cool state of fl decal vin, ( one on my vw trike )
Of course if the vin tag is too rusty to read then in FL you are shi..out of luck, they might with a fl judges orders use a frame VIN not likely, so if you wanna keep the car and be legal call YOUR DMV.
12-24-2014, 07:33 PM
#14
Drifting
12-24-2014, 08:45 PM
#15
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Not really.More often than not,the police are just not quite sure,the DMV can be so utterly incompetent and ignorant of their own rules,paranoia and fear is perfectly rational and often the only way to approach them with a question...Best to do your own research,oh wait,it won't matter it will be interpreted as the friendly LEO sees fit at that moment at the side of the road,your opinion,the law and your rights be damned...
I found every person I worked with, ( in USA ) both leo's and DMV personal very competent and knowledgeable, sorry you didn't, of course I didn't walk up to the clerk at the window I called the lady in charge in our states capital,
There is no rational reason a legal owner of a car with a legal vin tag would be all paranoid, on the other hand if a person deep down thought or knew there were shady issues with their VIN then yeah sure I can see them being all scared.
A leo at the roadside? I guess if the vin tag looks all molested that person might just get a car impounded and a trip to jail, who knows, we are speculating.
I do feel badly for you, You are way too paranoid, if your VIN is legit and title is legal take a deep breath and don't worry,
I saw a little rust above my VIN tag and after I pull the pads and windscreen if I will risk screwing up the VIN tag I will go show it to the kind lady at the DMV fill out the paperwork for a fl state replacement decal...( even ncrs doesnt count off for vin decals, I heard ).
But anyone with a question like the OP's the answer IS call your DMV's head office and ask for the person in charge of VIN's worse things in the world they could do is listen to cyber know it alls...
12-24-2014, 11:03 PM
#16
Safety Car
Around here you don't even have to take the car down to the DMV. If the car is not drivable they will come to you and do the inspection.
12-25-2014, 09:31 PM
#17
Race Director
Now it's a problem. But if you didn't advertise and just did it no one would know the difference. I am sure it is done all the time.
12-25-2014, 09:45 PM
#18
12-26-2014, 01:46 AM
#20
Safety Car
I just provided the information on how to properly and legally remove and replace a VIN tag. If you would like to address how it affects the cars value or your chance of getting caught after having illegally altering a VIN tag we can go there.