The13Bats

When I get there, after a few weeks car will be back from mikes shop I will open the old top and take some pictures and make a top install thread...seems it would help others, I will do it as you tell me to removing the old etc... and buy the parts from who you say I should....after the soft top is on and working as much as I like the hard top look it will get stored away...

The13Bats

I have no idea who is at "fault" but I am way to scared to take a chance on a top that is cut so skinny that even the top master guru has to fight it onto the frame....

GrandSportC3

I certainly can help you! I'm fairly busy but I'm sure that I could find some time in coming weeks..

bj1k

Same installer , two different top companies , two different results every time. Please explain that to me. You wouldn't be Al's brother would you ?

The13Bats

Dont get too scared I just wanted a couple cats I could email if I have problems...

Have you noticed there are a lot of cats saying they did their own top install and it's no big deal then just one camp saying it's a hard job to tackle....hum....

GrandSportC3

The key is to get it on straight.. Getting the weatherstrip and the rear bow on is a little bit of a pain as, without special tools, it is time consuming to push the end part of the top into the channel in the top frame and then the weather strip on top..

Ironcross

Any one can install a top, not everyone can do it right and its the finished product thats important.....

Canvas tops are available, but only special order direct from Al`s ...


WJK

radiotexas

bj1k I had a bad experience with some Al Knoch interior carpet pieces. They were so stiff and so badly cut, they simply could not be used. I sent feelers to El Paso about the carpet but got no replies. I bought the AK items on their reputation, go figure.

bj1k

I'm not surprised that you didn't get any response. They are getting tired of answering the complaints. When I first started noticing problems with their tops I called to talk to Al personally and tell him about the last two tops that I bought from him that were cut too short lengthwise and side to side and he argued that there is nothing wrong with his tops and said that I was installing them wrong. I explained that I learned from his videos years ago how to install tops and had installed many of his tops with show quality results even with very little experience back then and asked him if it was possible that I forgot what I knew . He just hung up on me. That's how Al deals with his problems. Funny thing , all I will install now is Robbins tops and the problems and hassles are gone. It's a shame because Knoch used to make some of the best tops and were made exactly like original.

The13Bats

Bj1k,

While I can't comment with personal experience with AK what I do sadly see this type thing over and over with people in the business who in many cases have a reputation and yet their egos will not allow them to accept that they are human and can make mistakes they will never admit they were wrong,
I have seen too many times opinions tried to be forced on customers as fact.

In this case the fellow hangs up on you and likely blows you off in his mind as a know nothing novice hobbyist because in his mind he is the "master" of it all.
This of course is not the case but it's how that type deals with it.

I do not know if AK make the tops in house or hire them out and it's not his fault if a supplier screwed things up it IS however his fault for selling and defending the top that was cut too short, that is not a case of "opinion" if something calls for 10" and it's 8" then it's wrong, no amount of hang ups, snarky arrogant attitudes will change that,

Some of these venders need to come down off their little ego castles in the clouds and understand they are not Gods and not perfect and can and do make mistakes.

( Can you tell a few have rubbed me wrong? )

0Willcox Corvette

I'm not trying to rub anyone the wrong way and all I can speak from is my experience with their tops...

The only top I will carry and sell... or install is a Al Knoch Top.... Aside from Al, there probably isn't another person on this forum that has installed more of his tops than me in a lifetime. I've installed other tops and even did the test fit for CA's brand of tops about six years ago and still stick with Al's tops......

Is it easy... nope, but it's not hard either... It takes time, the correct tools and patience. I've illustrated the last four tops we've installed on our Facebook page in hopes that it will offer some insight to others on exactly how it's done.

I have never received a top that did not fit, I'm sorry... but I'm batting 100 percent for lifetime. I have fixed tops that were installed incorrectly (when possible)... and I can't tell you how many so called experts have screwed up this installation. We have a installer in the next town over that used rivets to secure the rear bow the top... how's that for a so called expert. Not only did he screw up the top but he also screwed up the guys rear bow.

The most common problem that I see is people say the top is too short... if it is, it was cut off too short because there is more than ample material above the rear window and for the header to do the installation.

Tools.. I use wildwood glue... a pneumatic professional trim stapler, and in most cases I always replace the tack strips.


Here are some pics from our last installs... and I can get discounted prices on Al's tops.

bj1k

I would think that because you are a dealer that he would be certain that you get the best of his tops because I would challenge you to install any of his tops that I said were too short. Even the stitching on the sides were bunched up because the material was not stretched out before they sewed the binding on causing major ripples in the sides impossible to pull out . I don't have the luxury of a well known business like yourself to have access to his better tops if they exist and bought mine at a local vendor that sells his tops at a cheaper price with the Al Knoch name on everything. Makes me wonder why the local vendor can sell them cheaper. I don't doubt that he can still make quality tops but they only seem to show up at big events where he has to show a perfect top and installation but I caution anyone that just buys his tops and plan on doing your own installation because there is a lot of junk out there. The Robbins top that I just installed on my 72 is absolutely perfect and the window is so straight that it looks like glass.

0Willcox Corvette

BJ1K... Like I said, I'm just speaking from my personal experience and success and not trying to rub anyone the wrong way.

Sewing error's can happen just as I'm sure other mistakes can too... God knows I've made tons of mistake, I'm human... but it's how you deal with those mistakes that define who you are.

Ernie

bj1k

I am surprised that you would show the convertible top on the C2 and claim that it is an acceptable top. With all due respect that top is exactly what I am talking about when I criticize Al Knoch tops. As you can see on the side the material was bunched up when the binding was sewed on causing ripples. The rest of the top is loose and sloppy. And if you look at the other tops they are much better although not perfect. This is what I say about Knoch tops . You never know what you will get. I'm not blaming you as the installer. I know you did the best you could with these tops. Some of them are just impossible to make them look acceptable.

jj55chevy

just a heads up from experience. I bought a top off eBay from a supplier called Diamondmall for $200 and it looks like a pool toy. the window is not stitched in, it is heat sealed on and needless to say it did not fit. I fought and begged for my money back to no avail. hence I am doing a little more research here before I plunk down any more money for another one.

vettebuyer6369

The last 3 tops I've purchased in recent years were all from Al Knoch. They have been perfect. If I needed another top tomorrow I'd order from there.

And regarding customer service, I bought a full interior for my '69 and I had an odd issue with the seats and called him and he took care of it no questions asked immediately.

Yeah, Knoch is one of my favorite vendors.

I think everyone has a great story and a bad story about most vendors. I guess all you can do is process all the comments and take a shot, and hope for the best.

The13Bats

I will assume you also paid to have the top installed so that is a different boat than a do it myself cat like myself, yeah, I wanna try to install the top myself partly to save a buck and partly to thump my chest and boast that I did do it myself,

I heard for years when it came to tops AK was it the top of the line but from info on this very forum it appears that even AK as a company admits some tops are not fitting without lots of extra effort and work not needed on their tops sold years back this quality control issue is from the place who makes the tops for AK and in the case of a cat who has installed 1000's of tops they know from pure experience how to force this and work that to make it fit,

I have also seen feedback on here that AK didn't extend the same wonderful custom service that you received to everyone, perhaps your status helped with that.

Weeks back I emailed AK about having a top installed at the NCRS show, the reply said that I better jump right on it and book it immediately but the lady to call for bookings would not take any calls for like a week, sort of a paradox huh?
When I saw the price tag I decided to tackle it myself.

I do NOT have that hands on experience installing tops, when I go to tackle my top install I will pester a couple cats on here who have been there done that but like I said for me it just makes sense to start with a top not known to have the fitting / cut issues that it would seem are now haunting AK tops.

bj1k

I'm assuming that you know Al personally and he would personally inspect any top that you were buying , but for the average grunt on here that just orders from him I would just say all the luck in the world to you in being happy with your top . Take a look at the photo that was posted here for the C2. If that's what you want , that's what you will probably get. It was installed by someone with experience.

The13Bats

I also wonder if some people/businesses get VIP from AK.

I am also not trying to rub anyone anyway either but I just can not take the risk of a top that takes an expert to get good or mediocre end results, in my case I wouldn't have known the top was made wrong I would have thought I was too stupid to conquer it's installation, I would have called AK and if what I read on here has any truth to it AK would have blamed me end of story.

Lastly , BJ1K how about some pictures of your top on your car,

bj1k

Sure Bats . Be glad to send some pictures to you but you will have to post them . Unfortunately I'm not as good with computers as I am at installing tops . PM your email to me again. Not sure if I still have it.