Stereo Experts
10-02-2015, 10:51 AM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Stereo Experts
Quick question I recently upgraded my stereo to an Antique Auto Deck Part number 992201B, new kick panel and deck speakers. I also installed a Sub in the back. ...... sooo it sounds terrible. The deck just about destroys the speakers and is really distorted. Also has some engine whine coming through the speakers
I'm using the stereos original ground. Could a bad or weak ground be the issue? For guys that have updated the Stereo did you change the ground? If so where did you run it? Thanks for any help and reading!!
Tom
1975 Convertible
I'm using the stereos original ground. Could a bad or weak ground be the issue? For guys that have updated the Stereo did you change the ground? If so where did you run it? Thanks for any help and reading!!
Tom
1975 Convertible
10-02-2015, 11:42 AM
#2
Le Mans Master
Yep, I completely redid the wiring to separate it.
I ran a power and ground from the battery to the console. Then added a relay from the factory yellow wire that turns on the radio.
No ignition noises now.
I also added a 75x4 amp while I was at it.
I ran a power and ground from the battery to the console. Then added a relay from the factory yellow wire that turns on the radio.
No ignition noises now.
I also added a 75x4 amp while I was at it.
10-02-2015, 02:31 PM
#5
Le Mans Master
Member Since: May 2003
Location: Fernandina Beach FL
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First - need to know how you wired it? Seperate amp for the sub?
The speakers should easily be able to handle the decks power and not distort.
Couple things to check- make sure the speakers are wired correctly as far as the polarity. A simple test- hook up a 1.5v battery to each speaker - the positive to what you think is the positive lead of the speaker- speaker will move forward- if backwards then then you have them wired out of phase. You will lose a lot of sound because the speakers are working against each other- most noticeable will be the lower bass sounds.
ddawson has one way to solve the alternator noise or whine, However most new radios just use the ignition wire to switch the unit on rather than power the radio- so a relay probably won't be necessary. That being said the constant power wire is used to power the amp in the radio versus just the memory- So wiring it directly to the battery would be the best- as the battery is also a great big noise filter. Do the ground as well- as if you have a bad or even not so good a ground- the radio will use the ground at the antenna(outer braided covering on the antenna cable) and rather than shield noise it becomes a big receptor!!
Noise filter are usually just a band-aid- as most radios have one built - capacitor and inductor already in the unit- even the original radios from the 60s.
Another possibility -if you have got a good ground and powering from the battery- is a alternator that is going bad- diodes breaking down. A simple test- take a voltmeter -turn it to AC voltage -and measure w/ the car running - at 1500RPM it should not see anymore than 100mV.
The speakers should easily be able to handle the decks power and not distort.
Couple things to check- make sure the speakers are wired correctly as far as the polarity. A simple test- hook up a 1.5v battery to each speaker - the positive to what you think is the positive lead of the speaker- speaker will move forward- if backwards then then you have them wired out of phase. You will lose a lot of sound because the speakers are working against each other- most noticeable will be the lower bass sounds.
ddawson has one way to solve the alternator noise or whine, However most new radios just use the ignition wire to switch the unit on rather than power the radio- so a relay probably won't be necessary. That being said the constant power wire is used to power the amp in the radio versus just the memory- So wiring it directly to the battery would be the best- as the battery is also a great big noise filter. Do the ground as well- as if you have a bad or even not so good a ground- the radio will use the ground at the antenna(outer braided covering on the antenna cable) and rather than shield noise it becomes a big receptor!!
Noise filter are usually just a band-aid- as most radios have one built - capacitor and inductor already in the unit- even the original radios from the 60s.
Another possibility -if you have got a good ground and powering from the battery- is a alternator that is going bad- diodes breaking down. A simple test- take a voltmeter -turn it to AC voltage -and measure w/ the car running - at 1500RPM it should not see anymore than 100mV.
10-04-2015, 10:00 AM
#7
Team Owner
Sub needs to be on a separate amp channel with capacity to handle it. Low frequency speakers "eat" power, so you need a healthy amp to support it without distortion.
10-05-2015, 10:55 AM
#8
Racer
Thread Starter
Thanks for the reply. The deck is running on the original Stereo wiring. The amp and sub are running on a wiring direct to the battery. I checked the phase of the speakers and they are wired correctly
I agree the speakers should be able to handle the power of the deck. The just sounds like its going to completely destroy them!!
I'm going to try and re-wire the power and ground direct to the battery....I guess its time to take her apart again.
I agree the speakers should be able to handle the power of the deck. The just sounds like its going to completely destroy them!!
I'm going to try and re-wire the power and ground direct to the battery....I guess its time to take her apart again.
First - need to know how you wired it? Seperate amp for the sub?
The speakers should easily be able to handle the decks power and not distort.
Couple things to check- make sure the speakers are wired correctly as far as the polarity. A simple test- hook up a 1.5v battery to each speaker - the positive to what you think is the positive lead of the speaker- speaker will move forward- if backwards then then you have them wired out of phase. You will lose a lot of sound because the speakers are working against each other- most noticeable will be the lower bass sounds.
ddawson has one way to solve the alternator noise or whine, However most new radios just use the ignition wire to switch the unit on rather than power the radio- so a relay probably won't be necessary. That being said the constant power wire is used to power the amp in the radio versus just the memory- So wiring it directly to the battery would be the best- as the battery is also a great big noise filter. Do the ground as well- as if you have a bad or even not so good a ground- the radio will use the ground at the antenna(outer braided covering on the antenna cable) and rather than shield noise it becomes a big receptor!!
Noise filter are usually just a band-aid- as most radios have one built - capacitor and inductor already in the unit- even the original radios from the 60s.
Another possibility -if you have got a good ground and powering from the battery- is a alternator that is going bad- diodes breaking down. A simple test- take a voltmeter -turn it to AC voltage -and measure w/ the car running - at 1500RPM it should not see anymore than 100mV.
The speakers should easily be able to handle the decks power and not distort.
Couple things to check- make sure the speakers are wired correctly as far as the polarity. A simple test- hook up a 1.5v battery to each speaker - the positive to what you think is the positive lead of the speaker- speaker will move forward- if backwards then then you have them wired out of phase. You will lose a lot of sound because the speakers are working against each other- most noticeable will be the lower bass sounds.
ddawson has one way to solve the alternator noise or whine, However most new radios just use the ignition wire to switch the unit on rather than power the radio- so a relay probably won't be necessary. That being said the constant power wire is used to power the amp in the radio versus just the memory- So wiring it directly to the battery would be the best- as the battery is also a great big noise filter. Do the ground as well- as if you have a bad or even not so good a ground- the radio will use the ground at the antenna(outer braided covering on the antenna cable) and rather than shield noise it becomes a big receptor!!
Noise filter are usually just a band-aid- as most radios have one built - capacitor and inductor already in the unit- even the original radios from the 60s.
Another possibility -if you have got a good ground and powering from the battery- is a alternator that is going bad- diodes breaking down. A simple test- take a voltmeter -turn it to AC voltage -and measure w/ the car running - at 1500RPM it should not see anymore than 100mV.
10-05-2015, 12:27 PM
#9
Team Owner
Thanks for the reply. The deck is running on the original Stereo wiring. The amp and sub are running on a wiring direct to the battery. I checked the phase of the speakers and they are wired correctly
I agree the speakers should be able to handle the power of the deck. The just sounds like its going to completely destroy them!!
I'm going to try and re-wire the power and ground direct to the battery....I guess its time to take her apart again.
I agree the speakers should be able to handle the power of the deck. The just sounds like its going to completely destroy them!!
I'm going to try and re-wire the power and ground direct to the battery....I guess its time to take her apart again.
One thing to keep in mind is, insufficient power to the speakers, can more destructive that too much. What is the output of your head unit, and what kind of speakers are they? Also, if you're using an auxiliary amp for the sub, you need an alternator that's up to the job.
10-05-2015, 01:09 PM
#10
Le Mans Master
Member Since: May 2003
Location: Fernandina Beach FL
Posts: 8,481
Received 3,220 Likes
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2023 Restomod of the Year finalist
2020 C3 of the Year Winner - Modified
Wired correctly- you might have a couple issues as far as noise.
Disconnect the RCA pre-amp cables at the radio and see if you still have noise. If so wiring radio to the battery might help.
Otherwise could be several things w/ the sub amp- one being some inexpensive RCA cables running to close to a power wire- bad or non-existent ground at the radio...
Leadfoot is correct- insufficient power can cause damage- When you turn the radio up too much-the radio will clip/distort and send DC to the speaker (rather than AC) and actually burn the voicecoil wire like a fuse- it's a really thin wire.
A solution?
Since you have a sub- you really don't need any low - bass sound going to your smaller speakers - I'd recommend a simple $10 fix (actually $20 for 2 pair of speakers!) and get a pair of these- bass blockers-300hz ones
A capacitor wired in a series for the smaller speakers-will help tremendously-
Disconnect the RCA pre-amp cables at the radio and see if you still have noise. If so wiring radio to the battery might help.
Otherwise could be several things w/ the sub amp- one being some inexpensive RCA cables running to close to a power wire- bad or non-existent ground at the radio...
Leadfoot is correct- insufficient power can cause damage- When you turn the radio up too much-the radio will clip/distort and send DC to the speaker (rather than AC) and actually burn the voicecoil wire like a fuse- it's a really thin wire.
A solution?
Since you have a sub- you really don't need any low - bass sound going to your smaller speakers - I'd recommend a simple $10 fix (actually $20 for 2 pair of speakers!) and get a pair of these- bass blockers-300hz ones
A capacitor wired in a series for the smaller speakers-will help tremendously-
10-05-2015, 02:38 PM
#11
Racer
Thread Starter
180 Watts of Constant Power (45 x 4 @ 4 Ohm) is the head unit.
The 4x6 speakers are Polk power range: 4-50 watts RMS (150 watts peak power
The 5-1/4 Speakers are Rockford Fosgate 2-40 watts RMS power range
I did bass blockers on the 4x6 Speakers, "Bass Stopper Inline Crossover 300 Hz/150 Hz"
Ill try taking the RCA off tonight and see if the noise is gone. Although, I can live with the noise, but the distortion is driving me nuts!
Thank you for the all the replies and help
The 4x6 speakers are Polk power range: 4-50 watts RMS (150 watts peak power
The 5-1/4 Speakers are Rockford Fosgate 2-40 watts RMS power range
I did bass blockers on the 4x6 Speakers, "Bass Stopper Inline Crossover 300 Hz/150 Hz"
Ill try taking the RCA off tonight and see if the noise is gone. Although, I can live with the noise, but the distortion is driving me nuts!
Thank you for the all the replies and help
10-05-2015, 06:19 PM
#12
Le Mans Master
Member Since: May 2003
Location: Fernandina Beach FL
Posts: 8,481
Received 3,220 Likes
on
1,732 Posts
2023 Restomod of the Year finalist
2020 C3 of the Year Winner - Modified
Thought...
I know some GM cars back in the day (installed car stereos to put myself through college in the early 80's) but some cars used a common ground speaker wiring.
Where as the front and rear- in the Corvette's case- dash and kick - there were six wires for the speakers- a positive for all four speakers and a shared negative for the left and right. If your car is wired that way- you'll need to run new wires to the speakers. As the output's on your radio is know as a "BTL" or balanced transformer-less- and the negatives cannot see each other or a chassis ground to operate correctly. I can't tell you the number of times I had to run new speaker wires and the customer complained about the added cost!!!
Another thought- is an actual neg speaker wire seeing a chassis ground- as in a short or even touching the metal basket of the speaker.
You can disconnect one ground at a time and see if that stops the distortion- then you'll know where to investigate. It's very possible when you put the speaker(s) in the kick panel that the speaker terminal could be touching the metal birdcage and causing the problem.
Richard
I know some GM cars back in the day (installed car stereos to put myself through college in the early 80's) but some cars used a common ground speaker wiring.
Where as the front and rear- in the Corvette's case- dash and kick - there were six wires for the speakers- a positive for all four speakers and a shared negative for the left and right. If your car is wired that way- you'll need to run new wires to the speakers. As the output's on your radio is know as a "BTL" or balanced transformer-less- and the negatives cannot see each other or a chassis ground to operate correctly. I can't tell you the number of times I had to run new speaker wires and the customer complained about the added cost!!!
Another thought- is an actual neg speaker wire seeing a chassis ground- as in a short or even touching the metal basket of the speaker.
You can disconnect one ground at a time and see if that stops the distortion- then you'll know where to investigate. It's very possible when you put the speaker(s) in the kick panel that the speaker terminal could be touching the metal birdcage and causing the problem.
Richard
10-06-2015, 09:40 AM
#13
Racer
Thread Starter
Thought...
I know some GM cars back in the day (installed car stereos to put myself through college in the early 80's) but some cars used a common ground speaker wiring.
Where as the front and rear- in the Corvette's case- dash and kick - there were six wires for the speakers- a positive for all four speakers and a shared negative for the left and right. If your car is wired that way- you'll need to run new wires to the speakers. As the output's on your radio is know as a "BTL" or balanced transformer-less- and the negatives cannot see each other or a chassis ground to operate correctly. I can't tell you the number of times I had to run new speaker wires and the customer complained about the added cost!!!
Another thought- is an actual neg speaker wire seeing a chassis ground- as in a short or even touching the metal basket of the speaker.
You can disconnect one ground at a time and see if that stops the distortion- then you'll know where to investigate. It's very possible when you put the speaker(s) in the kick panel that the speaker terminal could be touching the metal birdcage and causing the problem.
Richard
I know some GM cars back in the day (installed car stereos to put myself through college in the early 80's) but some cars used a common ground speaker wiring.
Where as the front and rear- in the Corvette's case- dash and kick - there were six wires for the speakers- a positive for all four speakers and a shared negative for the left and right. If your car is wired that way- you'll need to run new wires to the speakers. As the output's on your radio is know as a "BTL" or balanced transformer-less- and the negatives cannot see each other or a chassis ground to operate correctly. I can't tell you the number of times I had to run new speaker wires and the customer complained about the added cost!!!
Another thought- is an actual neg speaker wire seeing a chassis ground- as in a short or even touching the metal basket of the speaker.
You can disconnect one ground at a time and see if that stops the distortion- then you'll know where to investigate. It's very possible when you put the speaker(s) in the kick panel that the speaker terminal could be touching the metal birdcage and causing the problem.
Richard
Got tired last night and didn't trouble shoot. Maybe tonight. Being self employed with three daughters and a wife takes a lot out of you !!!
Thanks guys for all the suggestions and help!
11-19-2015, 09:40 AM
#14
Racer
Thread Starter
Finally got out in the garage last night. Ran a new Ground line no improvement. Took the RCAs off (that power the sub), again no improvement.
I personally now think its the radio. The distortion is just terrible. Not to mention it will literally blow the speakers up if you turn it up.
Engine Noise is still there with the new Ground.
I'm going to write the company again and maybe try to get my money back and go with a new Center NON stock looking radio. I cannot drive the car as the sound is OK but annoying that the fact the radio is a $600 unit and sounds like hell!
I've isolated the speakers as well thinking that the kick panel Speakers were grounding out. again no help.
Anyone have experience with this radio that they would like to share with me? I've had the car apart three times now and with 40 year old components things are going to start to break......
So frustrated
with it!
I personally now think its the radio. The distortion is just terrible. Not to mention it will literally blow the speakers up if you turn it up.
Engine Noise is still there with the new Ground.
I'm going to write the company again and maybe try to get my money back and go with a new Center NON stock looking radio. I cannot drive the car as the sound is OK but annoying that the fact the radio is a $600 unit and sounds like hell!
I've isolated the speakers as well thinking that the kick panel Speakers were grounding out. again no help.
Anyone have experience with this radio that they would like to share with me? I've had the car apart three times now and with 40 year old components things are going to start to break......
So frustrated
with it!