emccomas

So here is something interesting....the Car Shipper document for the yellow ZL-1 car. This was photocopied by a railyard employee when the car arrived a Winston Salem, NC.

Note that this is a "used car", as it was originally ordered by a GM executive. Note the mileage of 1,200, and the statement "Formerly used by G. H. Heberling, St. Louis Plant".

Also note the "Cashier's Release" in the lower right dated 11-28-69 for $7889.54

Look at the option list.

19437 Corvette Coupe - $4781.00
2A01AA Soft-Ray Tinted Glass - $16.90
2F41AB Special Suspension - $36.90
2GS5AA Positraction Axle 336R - $0.00
2G81TA Positraction Axle 336 Ratio - $46.35
2K66BA Full - Transistor Ignition - $81.10
2L88AA Super Turbo - Jet 427 V8 - $1032.15
2M22AB 4 speed manual transmission,close ratio,heavy duty - $290.40
2N14AB Side Mount Exhaust System - $147.45
2N37AA Tilt - Telescope Steering Column - $84.30
2PU9AA White letter tires, F70 x 15, nylon _ $33.15
2TJ2AA Front Fender Louver Trim - $21.10
2UA6AA Alarm System - $26.35
2ZL1AA Aluminum Cylinder Block - $4718.35
2ZQ4AA Standard Interior (Black Vinyl) - $0.00
2984AA Daytona Yellow (exterior color) - $0.00

Total List Price = $11361.85 (not including destination charge, etc.)

Also note that the axle ration for this super car is 336, the same as the axle ratio on the orange car.

ed427vette

That is an interesting form. I have never seen one in that configuration.

emccomas

Yep, that is the shippers document, that almost never was kept with the car.

I think the shippers pulled these documents when the vehicle arrived at the destination.

This guy knew something special when he saw it. He made a photocopy and kept the original. He gave the original to Wayne Walker many years later. One of the many documents that were probably lost when the feds grabbed the car, and didn't think about the paperwork.

The feds really should get experts in these items involved ahead of time, just to make sure they get everything of value that is related to the car.

TCracingCA

Above I said that I have seen tank sticker get to have a fur texture like they had absorbed moisture, but I have seen them also super dry and crumbly!

interesting stuff for sure!

Rowdy Rat

Ed,

Might want to take a look at that again. Don't have my resources available right now, but pretty sure GS5 is either 3.70 or 4.11 in 1969.

Curious as to where the option prices came from... Hechler sticker was supposedly 10,771. Something doesn't add up. Prices probably changed September 1, 1969... Not sure if I have ever seen a post September 1969 price list.

Regards,

Stan

emccomas

You are correct Stan. GS3 was 336. I think GS5 is 370.

I got the prices right from the Corvette Black Book. Obviously taken with a gran of salt. Many thanks for the clarifications.

emccomas

A quick check for axle ratios, and came up with the following for 1969. Sound right?

GS1 273
GS2 308
GS3 336
GS4 355
GS5 370
GS6 411
GS7 456

ed427vette

I think GS4 is 370 and GS5 is 411

You beat me to it......

Actually something is wrong. The 355 ratio is not GS4. I am sure GS4 is 370 and GS5 is 411. I am also pretty sure GS6 is 456. I am looking through some paperwork to find it now.

It seems like the RPO I'm finding for the 355 is G95. I am trying to find other tank stickers with readable 355 ratios and I'm can't find many.

Crafty12

A lot of this has been gone over, but it was an interesting read for me a few years ago when I read it. Masterworks is right by my house, one day I will have to ask Werner about it.

http://www.mwauto.com/pdf/CF_0292.pdf

http://www.mwauto.com/

emccomas

OK, so what code is 355?

ed427vette

It's showing up as G95. When I get home I'll check through my tank sticker library and post some pics. Was the 355 the standard and other ratios the option within the option? I never looked through this before.

Rowdy Rat

That's what I'm showing as well.

1970-1972 codes are a bit different.

Regards,

Stan

emccomas

I agree after checking my references..

GS1 273
GS2 308
GS3 336
G95 355
GS4 370
GS5 411
GS6 456

G95 is also referred to in some references as the "economy rear".

Standard rear end was 336 with the standard 350 cid / 300 hp engine and 3 speed transmission.

Economy rear axle varried according to engine / trans combination.

350/300 2:54 3 speed 3:36 standard 3:08 economy
350/300 2:52 4 speed 3:36 standard 3:08 economy
350/300 Turbo Hydro 3:08 standard no econony

350/350 2:52 4 speed 3:36 standard no economy 3:55 performance
350/350 2:20 4 speed 3:70 standard no economy 4:11 performance

427/390 2:52 4 speed 3:08 standard no economy 3:36 performance
427/390 2:20 4 speed 3:36 standard 3:08 economy 3:55 performance 3:70 special
427/390 Turbo Hydro 3:08 standard 2:73 economy

427/400 2:52 4 speed 3:08 standard no economy 3:36 performance
427/400 2:20 4 speed 3:36 standard 3:08 economy 3:55 performance 3:70 special
427/400 Turbo Hydro 3:08 standard 2:73 economy

427/435 2:20 4 speed 3:55 standard 3:36 economy 3:70 performance 4:11 special
427/435 Turbo Hydro 3:08 standard 2:73 economy 3:36 performance

427/430 (L88) 2:20 4 speed 3:55 standard 3:36 economy 3:70 performance 3:70, 4:11, 4:56 special
427/430 (L88) Turbo Hydro 3:08 standard 2:73 economy 3:36 performance

TCracingCA

An Economy rear would be a big problem with it's authenticity! These guys doing this are just total *&%!'s

And on a few of these types of claimed cars, I have found or given accurate information or proved something was wrong with their histories and claims, and not one of them ever has fixed it, to be correct!

I am sure the current Owner will hang onto it being real, as will all of those in their buddy system.

PS the axle swap to HD 4.11 would definitely make sense, if the car only had an economy axle!

emccomas

Clean out your PM inbox.

TCracingCA

I must have missed something! I will go back and reread!

ZL-1 cars not my research specialty! And I haven't been much help on this thread. Still haven't pulled up a darn thing from my library yet!

I gave up on PMs! I was sharing research there for awhile, and I could never keep it clear, with guys trying to get me to stop everything I am doing, to find them racing records for their cars!

Economy? Basically I do know there were HD rear diffs and they were coded differently. I will have to look to see if 69 and later dropped that. I am looking above and under L88 is represented as being able to get a 3.36 economy for that. My memory was these L88 usually and solid lifter cars used to get the HD coded axles and not the same 3.36 as was put in the 300hp models. I didn't see that above post scrolling through the iPhone, but now see the detailed options on an actual computer. Just rusty on it all.

But I will still go up the thread and reread.

ed427vette

All 427s received the HD rear ends and had seperate codes for the same ratios as non HD rears. However, the term "economy" was in relation to the ratio, not the Heavy Duty aspect of the caps versus u-joint setup. Also, some 350 HP cars received the HD rear big block style rear end. From what I understand but I could be wrong, it was presumed that they would use they HD rear if a non HD rear was not available just to keep the line moving. But this has only been seen on 350hp cars, not 300hp. Positraction was not mandatory on the 350hp cars but was on all 427's in 69. However, you could, and would usually get positraction but NOT HD rear on small block cars. You can see this info on the Wholesale Order form. Very few cars were ordered without posi, about 1800 in fact.

Also, you could get any offered ratio for the L88 including 273 when you got the Auto trans. With a 4sp you go as low as the 308 which is labeled as economy in the catalog. You have to remember the L88 was designed more for GT racing then drag racing. They used these cars at Lemans were high top end was important.

emccomas

I have additional info that I cannot get to you unless you empty your PM box.

TCracingCA

Let me get it clear tomorrow on Friday! Man I hope guys don't fill it up before you send. That was happening in the past. I clear it to talk and bang, here comes the research thru my literature requests. Yes I don't mind helping or contributing for true enthusiasts. The investment crowd just fundamentally bothers me. Or better yet, I will send you a PM with my private email.

TCracingCA

That is what I thought from crawling under them for damn near 40 plus years looking for HD caps and axle yokes and such. Even the L-88/ZL-1 and eventually all of the HP Vettes used a better engine mount material, and I think that was adopted to the later models. ZL-1s had a different oil pump too. Those M40 trannies were modified and stuff like that.

You definitely have great information. Yes some small block cars did end up with HD axles. I have always hear that if they ran short of an assembly for a particular purpose vehicle like an L88, they stopped building those, till they could restock. But then their was the possibility of one on the line, maybe getting an authorization to just put a posi in something, to not complicate the flow!

I firmly believe that an ZL-1 essentially would have been escorted down the line. Things could have even been staged or delivered to the line for just one of these cars from even Chevrolet Engineering. Once one of those engines was designated, I am sure it got the best that they had for that build.

I am looking into the business Owners of West Penn Garage when I get a chance. The White car Dealership Owner, if I remember correctly was a GM insider and when he left Corporate, he still had the ability to pick up the phone and get something special. The individuals that had that kind of pull where the Nickey guys, the Baldwin Guys at a certain point, outfits like Briggs, Dana, Berger and Rathman Chevrolet, a Penske, a Mickey Thompson, a Smokey Yunick, a Grumpy Jenkins, etc..etc. etc. This West Penn Garage guy had better be of that caliber, or the story is all probably bull$hit, because run-of the mill Dealerships just didn't get the really unusual stuff. I will also check into this Maher guy to see what he did for a living and where he lived, etc.. I did find the actual pricing of the ZL-1s yesterday evening in a fairly modern 2010 Vette Vues, that for some reason I coincidentally had out. It talked about the L88/ZL-1 family. But many of those could get an L88. I have seen quite a number of performance minded outfits get the L88s. Out here from Baher, Clippinger, Washburn, Selman, Don Steves, Jack Head, Cone, etc. etc. etc. But even Mann Chevrolet out here could not always get what they wanted to order. Many of the California Dealerships I named were $hit hot connected up.

And do remember that the early true Performance Parts Dealerships had to have trained personnel on these parts and assemblies to be able to sell such hardware. That came down from the top guys, as to have people that knew what the heck all of this kind of stuff was, to get that Dealership designation. That kind of continued onto thru to the 1990s and into the modern, but in around the time during the early 80' and mid 80s when the Performance Catalogs came out, you could potential walk into any dealership and order something, but if you wanted to know it was in stock, you usually visited one of the suggested outlets. I used to get all of my Bowtie Parts from mainly Don Steves Chevrolet.

If you take the count of existing Dealerships in 1968/1969 and the car count of L88s, they were pretty sparsely distributed. You had better have gotten your order in on such an option, or made a high end phone call to secure one is what I believe. But then naturally guys would claim to have just walked in, sat with a salesman, checked the boxes, and off it went to get built. The price kind of precluded the average guy, stepping up to get one, but it did happen at mainly the high end Dealerships.

All interesting stuff!

Lastly I still have not ruled out the car! It is in my last place. It seems to still be as controversial of a car as back when I first remember it, when it popped up!

PS I do have out the Dealership performance Catalogs to see when the ZL-1s were getting sold over the counter. But that really has nothing to do with this car, because it wasn't generally a known car to the vast public until around the late 80s or early 90s if my memory serves me well.

I was also looking into Greders! As I think they shipped them a ZL-1 or a few pretty early on!