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Well, reuniting an original engine with a Corvette just happened to me and it played out right here on the forum a few months ago. I, along with several forum members saw a 69 L71 roadster for sale in Wash state on Craigslist and Facebook, reasonably inexpensive but missing the motor. I saw then vin and knew where the original engine was (which was about 10 minutes from my home). Bought the motor, then posted the engine pad on here for all to see. Then bought the car and had it shipped to me. I plan on spending the money and having the pad certified by CCAS. I’m sure it’s legit.
The thread is out there. It happened around September.
I just sent for the NCRS shipper report. The car was found and supposedly lived it’s life in that area. It was found in Bellingham Washington, 20 miles for the Canadian border. I hope it turns out to be a Canadian dealer car. Right now the car is safely in storage as I’m trying to finish a few other cars first before ripping it apart. I haven’t had time to check through the car or drop the gas tank. It looks like something might be on the tank but it’s covered in dust and dirt. I hope to get the car home by the summer.
OK, I'm late to the discussion, and the car has already sold at auction, BUT since there was a notarized letter posted that was written by a supposed eyewitness about the Maher "ZL1", I just wanted to include this from 2006. Just an observation, draw your own conclusions. https://www.digitalcorvettes.com/thr...-2#post-584584
According to someone going by "Fred Mann", he spoke with Maher about the orange "ZL1" car, and claims that Maher stated to him that the ZL1 engine was NOT factory installed, but dealer installed. Of course, heresay, yadda-yadda, but perhaps Fred Mann could submit a notarized letter.
Thanks for sharing. I think everyone knows my stance on this car by now It will be interesting to see if the new owner tries to take it through judging or is going to just display it in his collection. If he tries to register if for NCRS judging he is going to run into some problems. Either way a price of over $3 million is crazy with all of the question marks surrounding this car.
FWIW all of the 1969 COPO 9560 and 9561's Camaros were built off the L78 and used exception letters to make the changes, so the production totals for L78 Camaro include all of the ZL1's and the L72's. The exception letters laid it all out, deleted the SS badging and CUI callouts, the L78, and added the HD cooling (4 core curved neck rad), HD ring and pinion, ZL2 hood, and either the AL engine or the IRON long block L72's -
My big thing is the ZL1 block with - 074 heads required the additional 2 head bolts per side in the intake galley up into the head how can that be remedied with using the heads without such provisions?
NOW with the discovery of the L88 auto - early car with the MR engine dpocumentation.
Plus the guy has the engineering drawings for the 074 heads, and many other GM engineering drawings too.
To add to this long thread,.....a tidbit of interesting conincidence.....related to the Maher Orange Corvette that sold for millions. I hope the major contributors on this thread read this.
I was in Leechburg, PA, about a month or so ago.....in my orange C6 Corvette.....sitting inside Coco's Coffee shop, on Market Street. An elderly gray haired woman came through the door and came up to me and said...."Is that your orange Corvette?". Yes. She responded...."my husbands old orange convertible Corvette just sold for millions". She asked me if I knew John Maher? I said no. She then explained that he was an ex PA State Trooper, and had raced cars in the area for years. I said congratulations, not knowing that she was not the current owner.....and she responded...well....we certainly didn't get that money. So.....I just met John Maher's wife....not sure if it was his second, third or ? wife. But, she seemed to know alot. Last thing she said was......."I am more of a Mustang girl"!!! Made me laugh.
Secondly, I am from Apollo PA, and Apollo, Leechburg and Vandergrift are all three small towns within miles of each other. The references in this thread to Keddie and Ferrante dealerships are all well known dealers that have been around for many years in the 60-80's. I think Keddie still exists. I specifically remember being in Brownstown PA, in the early to mid 70's, when I was a teenager.....at a local hillclimb race with my uncle, and there was a Corvette in the race, owned by a state cop. It had to be John Maher. Could have been this car, or maybe Johns earlier car. I remember my uncle hating the guy for whatever reason.
Lastly....my uncle, Bob Morgan, from Apollo, was a big muscle car guy in the late 60's an on, (still is today) and owned and sold hundreds of muscle cars during that time and up to somewhere in the late 90's. He did most of this with his own cars, but also as a side business, and later owned a shop in North Apollo selling muscle cars. He also raced at Keystone Drags, in New Alexandria (about ten miles from where I sit writing this). He mostly had Chevelles, but also Corvettes, 442's, and a long list of others, mostly Chevy. I talked to him this summer, and he knew John Maher, and others who knew about the car. I would not trust his knowledge enough on this specific car to ask him any more on it, ....because I don't think he has direct knowledge of any details that would help clarify the issues. But he told me he knew about the car and had some stories about how a bunch of ZL1 engines where in storage locally, etc. I don't remember. I could ask him again.
Nothing above is anything important....just for me very interesting. My entire fascination with muscle cars, and why I own a C3 Corvette, comes from my teenage years in Western PA, specifically the Apollo / Leechurg / Vandergrift area....and a bunch of uncles that owned hundreds, and I mean HUNDREDS, of muscle cars and Corvettes of that era. Bob owned over 200 cars, and my uncle George Aaron had 103. Georges brand new 67 green metallic GTO is seared into my memory and remains the coolest car I have ever seen. Some of the cars, Bob owned for a day, and sold them for profit next day. The longest he owned a car was a black 69 coupe Corvette......had it for seven years. My uncle Mike Bertetto had some Chevelles, cousin Paul Zimmerman had some 442's, Chevelles, etc. I think there was alot of that going on in Western PA, and it was the seed for my love of the cars today.
Last edited by Torqued Off; 10-12-2023 at 06:57 AM.
Thanks for sharing. The orange car is still being marketed around as a real ZL1 which is sad. Unfortunately the money became to focus vs preserving the history of the car and the Gulf racing history. If the car would have been left unrestored and marketed as an L88 automatic car that was raced with a ZL1 engine it would have brought solid money. but $750k to a million just wasn't enough I guess. The car was only restored so that it could go thorough Bloomington Gold certification and then used as a marketing spin that the judges certified the car as the second ZL1 and bring in the $$$. This is from the auction:
"Refinished in its factory-correct Monaco Orange paint and black vinyl interior, Mackay completed the car in time for the 2014 Bloomington Gold show in Champaign, Illinois. After much scrutinous review of its comprehensive factory documentation, 710209 was awarded Bloomington Gold certification and formally recognized as the first of the two factory-built ZL-1 Corvettes. Now conclusively recognized as “the real deal,”
What a farce. I haven't spoken to one judge that has put their stamp on this car, not one. Real cars don't need a spin doctor, the car and documentation should speak for itself. Unfortunately, the story of this car will go down as one of doing whatever it takes to sell the car for big money and will never be recognized by knowledgeable corvette experts/collectors as factory built ZL1.
My love with cars, corvettes, and racing, also began in western PA in 1973. I had a respectable 68 Camaro SS 350 my senior year of high school, and a bunch of us car guys drove to North Park nearby (in Pittsburgh, PA) to watch the "races". It turned out to be an autocross. I got hooked for like 40 years. That was probably because a really kind gentleman liked my Camaro well enough that he took my 17 year old self for a ride in his rip-snorting Corvette. All I can remember was it had sidepipes and I was terrified. It was the loudest & fastest car there, and fastest car that I had ever ridden in! I can only assume it was an L88. It would only have been a 4 years old car at the time. Got a ride in a well setup 70 SS 350 also, but it remained well "hooked up" while the Corvette was "loose" all the time, and everywhere, straights or corners, even on those too-large for the fenders slicks! Nothing but smoke and noise. What a ride!
Thanks for sharing. The orange car is still being marketed around as a real ZL1 which is sad. Unfortunately the money became to focus vs preserving the history of the car and the Gulf racing history. If the car would have been left unrestored and marketed as an L88 automatic car that was raced with a ZL1 engine it would have brought solid money. but $750k to a million just wasn't enough I guess. The car was only restored so that it could go thorough Bloomington Gold certification and then used as a marketing spin that the judges certified the car as the second ZL1 and bring in the $$$. This is from the auction:
"Refinished in its factory-correct Monaco Orange paint and black vinyl interior, Mackay completed the car in time for the 2014 Bloomington Gold show in Champaign, Illinois. After much scrutinous review of its comprehensive factory documentation, 710209 was awarded Bloomington Gold certification and formally recognized as the first of the two factory-built ZL-1 Corvettes. Now conclusively recognized as “the real deal,”
What a farce. I haven't spoken to one judge that has put their stamp on this car, not one. Real cars don't need a spin doctor, the car and documentation should speak for itself. Unfortunately, the story of this car will go down as one of doing whatever it takes to sell the car for big money and will never be recognized by knowledgeable corvette experts/collectors as factory built ZL1.
The Automotive version of the Salvatore Mundi.......
Sincere question, as I can't figure out what the interest is in those two/three cars. Are there some actual racing accomplishments, or anything that makes these cars something other than trailer queens or dust magnets?
Sincere question, as I can't figure out what the interest is in those two/three cars. Are there some actual racing accomplishments, or anything that makes these cars something other than trailer queens or dust magnets?
Just trying to see what all the fuss is about.
The 69 ZL1 Corvette is one of the the rarest production cars ever built. Only 2 were built. One is accounted for, the yellow coupe owned by Roger and the other is unaccounted for.
My compliments on your post. I'm obviously not the renaissance man you are, as I had to look that up.
Well done, sir.
So if you looked it up....you see the story has a LOT of striking similarities.....
The Mundi sets me in awe for so many reasons.....but the biggest is that the painting itself, like the ZL-1....is intrinsically valueless....like a diamond or a NFT.....
And I find it hard to believe that neither can be document nor disproved 100%.....although the facts are right there in front of you....
The 69 ZL1 Corvette is one of the the rarest production cars ever built. Only 2 were built. One is accounted for, the yellow coupe owned by Roger and the other is unaccounted for.
.............................
I'm familiar with the small number of cars with that engine. But so what? Have either of those cars done anything noteworthy in competition, or what?
I'm familiar with the small number of cars with that engine. But so what? Have either of those cars done anything noteworthy in competition, or what?
To answer your question, No. But that is not a prerequisite for value. Some can say even if a car wins LeMans, who cares. Some people do not care about racing accomplishments. Obviously many people do like racing heritage, including me. The only thing that makes the ZL1’s valuable is that they are very desirable and extremely rare just for the reasons that only two were reportedly made. That’s it. Exclusivity. The orange car did have some race credits but not sure how much and for what but I am pretty much in agreement with DKM on what the car isn’t.
To answer your question, No. But that is not a prerequisite for value. Some can say even if a car wins LeMans, who cares. Some people do not care about racing accomplishments. Obviously many people do like racing heritage, including me. The only thing that makes the ZL1’s valuable is that they are very desirable and extremely rare just for the reasons that only two were reportedly made. That’s it. Exclusivity. The orange car did have some race credits but not sure how much and for what but I am pretty much in agreement with DKM on what the car isn’t.
So, exclusivity.
I can possibly understand why the occasional millionaire cares for these cars, as they can say they've got something that their similarly rich friends can't simply go out and buy one as well, due to the limited number.
But, as I mentioned before, I honestly don't understand the broader attraction.
The 69 ZL1 Corvette is one of the the rarest production cars ever built. Only 2 were built. One is accounted for, the yellow coupe owned by Roger and the other is unaccounted for.
That is THE NICEST way I have ever heard that said! Only One is accounted for.
It not only is possibly the rarest production car ever built, but it represents the pinnacle of factory racing involvement, and the end of that era.
It is the biggest, the baddest, the fastest and the most extreme example of that direct involvement.
It probably would not be so valuable if the Corvettes had not dominated road racing afterwards for years, if the BBC had not been discontinued, or if the BBC had not become the most popular engine in drag racing for 50+ years.
It is a great example of excess, where "Too much is just barely enough!"
Makes much more sense to me than a painting on the wall.
The aluminum heads and the aluminum blocks have been replicated by several suppliers over the years.
That reminds me of another quote: "Imitation is the sincerest form of Flattery"
02-03-2023, 06:01 PM
It will be interesting to see if the new owner tries to take it through judging or is going to just display it in his collection. If he tries to register if for NCRS judging he is going to run into some problems. Either way a price of over $3 million is crazy with all of the question marks surrounding this car.
