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Having owned a number of C2 and C3 over the years I will give you my .02 cents opinion.
First off I don't see anything from those pictures that would scare me away from this car if I thought it was the car for me.
1) Now that that is out of the way. I would not own a 68, 63, 64 Vette due to their individual quirks for one off parts.
2) This car has Hood, Headlight and Door alignment issues that will need to be address.
3) Is the windshield wiper door assembly (two items) painted?
4) When you say all the parts needed to complete the project come with the car what I see in the pictures is a bunch of used interior parts. If I was finishing this car I would not use those in their present condition. In the pictures I see one door panel and one seat.
5) Need to know what the convertible top is all about.
Overall its not a bad looking car and appears to be almost complete.
1) Now that that is out of the way. I would not own a 68, 63, 64 Vette due to their individual quirks for one off parts.
I've heard this from numerous sources. '68's seem to be quirky it seems, and I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I just like the style from '68 - '72 and I don't know enough yet to appreciate the differences.
Originally Posted by Mr D.
2) This car has Hood, Headlight and Door alignment issues that will need to be address.
Agreed - hard to tell exactly what that means. Seller did state that his guys did some fill world along the top clip where the hood sits by the lights that wasn't detailed as much as possible. Not sure how easy that is to deal with. Worst case, I guess it means the front clip needs to be stripped and re-done.
Originally Posted by Mr D.
3) Is the windshield wiper door assembly (two items) painted?
Yes - I've been told that it's painted and wrapped-up.
Originally Posted by Mr D.
4) When you say all the parts needed to complete the project come with the car what I see in the pictures is a bunch of used interior parts. If I was finishing this car I would not use those in their present condition. In the pictures I see one door panel and one seat.
He says he has all the door panels, soft top, and seats in the house. Everything is in boxes right now.
Originally Posted by Mr D.
5) Need to know what the convertible top is all about.
Overall its not a bad looking car and appears to be almost complete.
That's what it appears to be, but I'm trying to figure out how much $$ this "project" is worth getting in to. If the rest is just labor to finish and I'm willing to tackle most of it, what sort of $$ is reasonable to throw at this, versus something that might be finished?
2) This car has Hood, Headlight and Door alignment issues that will need to be address.
Thinking about this more, this is probably my biggest area of concern for. Per the seller, he outsourced the paint and they did some fill work along the top clip where the hood sits by the lights that wasn't detailed as much as possible. Here are some pictures of the specific area in question - you can see the tight fit. How fixable is this and is it something you would worry about for a car you plan to keep as a Sunday driver:
First question, you said that the engine is a 69 dated "512" block, LS5. The 512 block was used from 69-71 for both 427's and 454's. You called the engine an LS5, which is a 454, the 69 427/390 was an L36. Do you know if the engine is a 427, or a 454 LS5? Do you know what month the block was cast? Have you gotten the engine stamping off of the right front of the block, this will tell you exactly what engine it is. A 512 block cast late in 1969, could very well be a 70 454. Not that it's a big deal, because either way it's not the original engine.
Is the original color of the car LeMans Blue, do you know what the codes on the trim tag are? The inside of the doors look like they have/had red paint on then, but that may just be primer? The fender top moldings should be painted, not bare stainless. Only the small bead of stainless, that meets the windshield, was left bare, the rest of the molding was painted body color. The corresponding molding that goes on the wiper door, should be painted to match the fender moldings.
The car does not appear to have the right wheels on it. 68's came with a one year only 15x7 rally wheel, while 69-82's came with 15x8's. They look like they may be the later 15x8's. Again, it's not a big deal, and it's not anything that will hurt the car, just something to be aware of, if you're not familiar with 68's.
The missing visors are cheap at about $100 for a pair. If the headrests are there and just need to be recovered, you're looking at $200-$250. If they're missing altogether, new ones are about $300 for a pair. Is the soft top frame there? If it is and just needs a new top, it will cost you $1000-$1500 to have one installed. If you need a complete top assembly, new ones ready to install are about $3600.
It looks like the chassis has been gone over. The under hood pictures aren't good enough to really see anything, or comment too much about the engine compartment.
From what I see it's going to need more than an adjustment, to fix the fit of the hood and headlight doors. As you guessed, to fix the fit issues correctly, you'll probably looking at paint and body work.
Do you know if the car started life as a big block? I see that it does have the HD stub axles, rear sway bar and 7 leaf spring, which are all indicative of a 427, but are also easily changed.
If you're comfortable with the work that needs to be done to finish it, and you can get it for the low $20's, it's probably worth considering. I'd first want to know a little more about it, and have a full accounting of what parts are actually there.
Remember if you think you can finish the car up for $5000, it will probably cost you twice that. It's just the way things always seem to work out.
Do you know if the engine is a 427, or a 454 LS5? Do you know what month the block was cast? Have you gotten the engine stamping off of the right front of the block, this will tell you exactly what engine it is. A 512 block cast late in 1969, could very well be a 70 454. Not that it's a big deal, because either way it's not the original engine.
The seller has stated that the motor is NOT original but date coded 512 1960. To your point, it doesn't really matter to me as it isn't the original mill.
Originally Posted by gbvette62
Is the original color of the car LeMans Blue, do you know what the codes on the trim tag are? The inside of the doors look like they have/had red paint on then, but that may just be primer?
The seller has stated that the vehicle was painted International Blue, which was the original color per the build-sheet. I have no idea if it was painted a different color before.
Originally Posted by gbvette62
The car does not appear to have the right wheels on it. 68's came with a one year only 15x7 rally wheel, while 69-82's came with 15x8's.
I'm aware of this - not a big deal to me as I understand this isn't a bad thing from a drive-ability standpoint.
Originally Posted by gbvette62
The missing visors are cheap at about $100 for a pair. If the headrests are there and just need to be recovered, you're looking at $200-$250. If they're missing altogether, new ones are about $300 for a pair.
Yes - seller has stated that these are the only pieces missing from the vehicle that will need to be purchased.
Originally Posted by gbvette62
Is the soft top frame there?
Yes - a new one but unpainted. Also has new soft-top in box from Al Knoch.
Originally Posted by gbvette62
Do you know if the car started life as a big block? I see that it does have the HD stub axles, rear sway bar and 7 leaf spring, which are all indicative of a 427, but are also easily changed.
Seller has stated that the vehicle was originally a 427/390 but the original motor was lost when a machine shop sold it out from underneath the prior owner.
Originally Posted by gbvette62
If you're comfortable with the work that needs to be done to finish it, and you can get it for the low $20's, it's probably worth considering. I'd first want to know a little more about it, and have a full accounting of what parts are actually there.
I've requested an inventory from the seller as to what needs to be finished. Seller has stated that it has everything except for visors/headrests, plus misc small items that might add up to $1k today. My biggest concern is the fitment of the hood and front-clip - that's not something I can fix easily myself, and I'm not clear if a "fix" would mean just re-doing the front-clip or having to do the entire car again.
I'm not looking for a vehicle that is show quality (just a driver I can enjoy and improve upon over time), so I can probably live with a few issues here and there to get a decent BBC that fits within my budget. If low $20's presents some value here and I can deal the fitment issues with the front clip at some point in the future, that's where I'm looking for some advice.
Could be a nice car but there was obviously some front end damage in the past that wasn't repaired properly . I would be concerned with the fit at the front edges ( corners ) of the hood and the lower front pan with the chrome trims ( something is way off there ) . Probably why he is giving up on it since it is already painted.
Could be a nice car but there was obviously some front end damage in the past that wasn't repaired properly . I would be concerned with the fit at the front edges ( corners ) of the hood and the lower front pan with the chrome trims ( something is way off there ) . Probably why he is giving up on it since it is already painted.
Seller has stated that the vehicle hasn't been hit. Just the factory clip with too much skim coat around the rivets and didn't clean-out where the hood fits.
You make a good point about the chrome trims on the lower front pan? What's the deal here if the vehicle truly didn't have any damage up front? Can these be adjusted somehow to fit correctly?
Hi,
The fit of the bumper and of the grill lower trim to the bumperette is really unacceptable.
The BIG problem is that if/when the bumper is raised up to the point it's supposed to be, the bumperette will come with it and the fit at the bumperette/grill lower trim will be even worse with no recourse except for lots of bodywork and paint.
I'm wondering if the wiper grill and wiper door aren't on the car because they don't fit either?
Not a very nice car to my eye. (Money stays in my pocket!)
Regards,
Alan
Here's a typical fit of the bumper to the body and the bottom of the bumperette to the grill lower trim. (71)
Hi,
The fit of the bumper and of the grill lower trim to the bumperette is really unacceptable.
The BIG problem is that if/when the bumper is raised up to the point it's supposed to be, the bumperette will come with it and the fit at the bumperette/grill lower trim will be even worse with no recourse except for lots of bodywork and paint.
Is it possible that these are the wrong bumper guards for this vehicle? Were these identical from '68 through '70? Just perusing some websites, it seems like there are 2 different options (68-69 vs 70-72), so there must be something different about them.
Is it possible that these are the wrong bumper guards for this vehicle? Were these identical from '68 through '70? Just perusing some websites, it seems like there are 2 different options (68-69 vs 70-72), so there must be something different about them.
No they are the correct guards for 68-69. All 68-72 guards are basically the same. though The difference in them is that 70-72 guards are painted a dull gray on the inner edges, to match the grills. You can see this gray area in the picture above, that Alan posted. 68-69's are all chrome, with no paint on them.
By the way, something I noticed before, and forgot to mention in my other post, is that it looks like the car has a leaking right rear brake caliper. In the one picture of the underside of the car, you can clearly see where fluid has run down the back side of the tire. This is usually a good indicator of a leaking caliper.
There is too much negative going on with the front of this car for me. If you move on this car be prepared to have it re-painted after you fix all the non-fitting items on the front of this car.
This is a perfect example of someone painting a car before installing and fit testing every part before paint.
Hi rb,
"Is it possible that these are the wrong bumper guards for this vehicle?"
DIMENSIONALLY the bumperette stayed the same (and had to) because the position of the bumper and the position of the valance air dam stayed the same from 68-72.
Something not nice is going on under that blue paint!
Regards,
Alan
Perhaps it's something else besides his 'back' that has made him decide to TRY get out from under this car!
DIMENSIONALLY the bumperette stayed the same (and had to) because the position of the bumper and the position of the valance air dam stayed the same from 68-72.
Something not nice is going on under that blue paint!
Thanks - I really appreciate your expert eye and the feedback from everyone else. These are the sort of things that I didn't catch at first glance, and I'm glad I ran them past folks with more experience evaluating these cars. The seller keeps telling that it's an undamaged factory clip, but everything else I'm hearing from you guys tells me otherwise...
Assuming the car checks out, ask yourself if you want a project or not.
! had the same dilemma after driving a nearly perfect 1972 LT1. I decided I wanted a project more than a finished product so went for a 1969 big block project instead for about the same money. Some days I say "what have I done"? But I generally always enjoy spending time in the garage moving the project forward at a snails pace.
Both cars will put a smile on your face.
One on the road and one in the garage!
Good Luck
Pete
Hi rb,
Some restorers don't take the time to carefully fit the bumper and grills while the body work is going on.
After the car is painted and the bumpers/trim is being installed the problem becomes obvious and there's very little that can be done.
The blue car appears to be an example of that.
Without looking at each car you've seen in detail it's difficult to know why the fit is less than it should be. There are LOTS of 68-72 cars around with very poor bumper fit. That doesn't mean that makes it 'typical' and o.k..
Fitting the front bumper is an involved process even beyond what the configuration of the body is.
The bumper fit depends on the frame extensions, the forward cross-member, the center horse-shoe bumper bracket, and the left and right bumper brackets.
I'm not saying that the fit of the bumper/grill on the blue car can't be improved, I just don't know.
I'd want to know a lot more about this car and take a detailed look at it before spending any money.
Regards,
Alan
Wow, I have learned a lot from reading this thread. This thread should be required reading for anyone considering the purchase of a 2 bumper car, especially one over 20 grand. I guess I actually got lucky on buying my car because were these type of issues were not present. (I did find other bubbafied stuff that needed correcting though) I THINK I would have noticed the bumper, but I may not have thought it was nearly as big a deal as it is and in fact a possible indication of much bigger problems.
It definitely does. At first, this looked like an interesting vehicle that just needed finishing, but I knew if I posted it here the experts would "dig in" find all of the things that throw up warning flags. I've been reading a bunch of other posts as well trying to get up to speed on things to look for and it seems like I learn something new every day.
Seller has stated that the vehicle hasn't been hit. Just the factory clip with too much skim coat around the rivets and didn't clean-out where the hood fits.
You make a good point about the chrome trims on the lower front pan? What's the deal here if the vehicle truly didn't have any damage up front? Can these be adjusted somehow to fit correctly?
I didn't see anywhere that he stated that it wasn't hit and it is obvious that it was at least a lower front hit looking at the fit of the lower valance panel . The panel looks like it was bonded on too low and that is making it impossible for anything else to fit . Notice on the outer corner there is an area ( gap ) about one inch square that is too low. that explains why all of the trims and bumper are too low and the bumperettes are not lining up. To fix the alignment problems on this car it would require buying a new quality lower valance panel and install it properly . And re-work the front corners of the hood opening so it's getting into a repaint for the front clip.
I didn't see anywhere that he stated that it wasn't hit and it is obvious that it was at least a lower front hit looking at the fit of the lower valance panel . The panel looks like it was bonded on too low and that is making it impossible for anything else to fit . Notice on the outer corner there is an area ( gap ) about one inch square that is too low. that explains why all of the trims and bumper are too low and the bumperettes are not lining up. To fix the alignment problems on this car it would require buying a new quality lower valance panel and install it properly . And re-work the front corners of the hood opening so it's getting into a repaint for the front clip.
Seller was transparent about some repair on the inside rear, but swears that the vehicle has never been hit up front. His words: "The car hasn't been hit so there isn't fitment issues. It's a factory clip with the rivets they just put too much of a skim coat on and didn't clean out where the hood fits."
I've asked him to address the bumperette issue and am waiting on a response.
For arguments sake, how much would the above repairs entail to get the front-end right? Are we talking $5-6k or more than that?
02-24-2017, 06:28 PM
