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Old 06-30-2005, 03:15 PM   #1
mzr3yt
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Default C3 Brake Upgrades?

Does anyone make a bolt on kit to install C4 or C5 brakes (front and rear rotors and calipers) on early C3 Corvettes? If so, does the kit allow you to keep the emergency brake?
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Old 06-30-2005, 04:48 PM   #2
turtlevette
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NO,

you can piece together a setup with wilwood calipers. A forum member sells the front brackets and Heidt's hot rod shop sells the rears. Wilwood calipers are around 100 bucks each.
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Old 06-30-2005, 05:02 PM   #3
Twin_Turbo
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Precision brakes sells a bolt on wilwood 6 piston/4 piston kit, i think Rick Moroso has it w/ the 2 peice rotor/hat combo also.
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Old 06-30-2005, 05:05 PM   #4
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I thought Vette Brakes had one, but after looking at the catalog again they sell a kit to upgrade early C4 brakes with later. They are a Forum sponsor, you might tell them how much you would like a kit. You never know.....
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Old 06-30-2005, 05:15 PM   #5
WayneLBurnham
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Default Somebody posted a nice detailed procedure for C3-C5

I have the file saved somewhere (and couldn't find it) and can't find it in a search. It also coul have been on CAC - I saw it way over a year ago and it itself was archived....

Basically with very little machining - a step or groove or somesuch on the fronts and making some bracket or something on the backs this guy claimed a 100% bolt on use of C5 brakes, without the ABS system.

I do not recall if the p-brake/e-brake was retained or not.

The Wilwood is one conversion I've heard of. VBP claims their top line rotors (C3 rotors are something like 11.7", IIRC) and their new calipers, the Wilwood system only develops about 10% more clamping force. I personally would just love to dump the damned live piston design, whatever high end system was used.

I love VBP's suspension stuff, and have their ultimate system on my POS, but I had a nightmare that stretched over $3500-4000 and 75,000 miles or more and couldn't get the same braking I get out of four wheel drums on similar aged things - and I used lots of their products, although not yet their creme de la creme rotors. Just recently, during this horrible year of engine (mainly) problems, did I finally get decentish - but I would not call even good - brakes. I rebuilt the VBP calipers with their kits myself, changed the @%$#%$ distribution/proportioning valve I *ALWAYS* suspected was causing problems, went with the Hawk pad type they recommended and changed master cylinders yet again.

For the first time, after trying all kinds of fluids, 7 master cylinders, 6 rotors, 6 calipers, flexible SS and other new connector lines, did I finally get reliable braking, albeit not sportscar level to my thinking.
I hate working on brakes, having grown up on drums and dreading all the little springs and rusted parts and whatnot, but when I sat down and just did it myself - and all at once - I got results. (I do not feel I broke in the pads perfectly....I basically followed the procedure, mostly, pretty much...."klaatu, verata...nick<cough>"

Now SSBC offers a bolt on high end C3 thing called "force 10". One person here or on CAC, who was quickly backed up by others, by the moniker of "Megladon" had a terrible support problem with them I thought was reserved for the clowns who put my engine together.

Baer also has SOMETHING - but I never found what that was. It may only have been 6 piston calipers, I'm not sure, I never did trace it down.

My advice is whatever system you go with, use high boiling DOT 3/4 - super purge it with the very same type (FoMoCo DOT3 at the minimum or one of the racing types like Wilwood), do EVERYTHING on the system at once (I have never changed main lines...), change the flex lines to braided SS and make sure your MC is the right diameter (1" or 1.125"). Finally, once done, have that puppy powerbled WITH THE SAME FLUID, preferrably twice on two consecutive days. (When using a specific fluid - you'll have to pay to charge up their whole power bleeder with it.)

I finished that chore last fall and it's held with no addressing since then, which, when I think about it, scares me.

Good luck on the worst designed part of the C3!
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Old 06-30-2005, 05:17 PM   #6
Twin_Turbo
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it's 70LS1 that did that mod (or is his name 71LS1 ?? either way, it's something w/ LS1)
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Old 06-30-2005, 07:07 PM   #7
corvettecris
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It's 70LS1:

http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c3/70lt1/brakes.shtml
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Old 06-30-2005, 07:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneLBurnham





Now SSBC offers a bolt on high end C3 thing called "force 10". One person here or on CAC, who was quickly backed up by others, by the moniker of "Megladon" had a terrible support problem with them I thought was reserved for the clowns who put my engine together.

YUP, after they sold me the wrong parts, they told me to eat DOO DOO . This was over the phone, and a month and a half of
getting a hold of someone
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Old 06-30-2005, 07:30 PM   #9
427V8
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Vette brakes does sell some calipers, but their claim of Wilwood only having 10% more clamping force is about as usefull information as saying one engine has 10% more fuel consumption so thats why it's faster.

What I'm trying to say is that clamping force is the easy part. Good brakes are the hard part.
You cannot just slap a piece of aluminum with 4 holes in it on your car and say they are good brakes.
Caliper stifness is a big thing, so is seal design and piston design.

Wilwood is used by Nascar, Cart and IRL. Not to mention roundy rounders and dragsters. they have thousands of hours experience designing calipers that work.

But that is not enough. You also need to engineer the system. The wrong caliper will be bad no matter who makes it.

C5 brakes are not that good. Better than a worn out C3 systen yes, but not much. You also need to change the master clyinder with the C5 calipers.

The best bang for the buck is still the origional calipers rebuilt.
then it's probably the Dynalites front and rear.
After that it gets expensive.

I do sell brackets for the front for either stock rotors or 13" rotors. if someone want them I can supply them, but I don't actively market them.

Last edited by 427V8; 06-30-2005 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 06-30-2005, 08:38 PM   #10
turtlevette
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 427V8
The best bang for the buck is still the origional calipers rebuilt.
then it's probably the Dynalites front and rear.
After that it gets expensive.
.
After 25 years of rebuilding over and over and over, my opinion is stock calipers make good boat anchors. The wilwood dynalites are actually less money than rebuilt and the brackets are cheap money.

Another side benefit of dynalites is that a wider variety of wheels will fit due to reduced caliper interference which is a major issue on C3s.
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Old 06-30-2005, 08:53 PM   #11
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Everytime I talk to VB&P, I ask about a kit to put C5 brakes on a C3. Each time they tell me "We're working on it". Whoever makes a good upgrade kit will sell a whole lot of them.
I'm suprized that no one has mentioned "Hydraboost". Once you get the calipers fixed and SS lines, it is the BOMB!

Rick
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Old 06-30-2005, 09:44 PM   #12
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Default Silicone fluid..?

Presently I have silicone fluid and want rid of it. Any suggestions?

carbster09
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Old 06-30-2005, 09:50 PM   #13
427V8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taijutsu
Everytime I talk to VB&P, I ask about a kit to put C5 brakes on a C3. Each time they tell me "We're working on it". Whoever makes a good upgrade kit will sell a whole lot of them.
I'm suprized that no one has mentioned "Hydraboost". Once you get the calipers fixed and SS lines, it is the BOMB!

Rick
You must have a completely different idea of good brakes than I do.

C5 brakes? C5 owners put Wilwoods on them.

Hydroboost? It doesn't fix leaky heavy weak calipers. In fact it only makes them worse by running them beyond their rated pressure.
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Old 06-30-2005, 11:25 PM   #14
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I don't think anything will fixed bad brakes except to repair them. There are many forum members that think the firm hydraboost pedal is nice. It sure makes me feel more secure.
The tech at VB&P mentioned $900 per F/R. How much more would the others cost? There is some thing to be said for using off the shelf when possible.
I'm open to upgraded rotors/calipers in the future. I already had VB&P O ring calipers, ss lines and the hydraboost was part of a GP. The vendor knocked off $100 for forum members. If someone comes up w/budget upgrade that is far superior than stock, for a big discount, when my car is in the shop already, I would give that serious consideration.
I'm not trying to get into a tech argument. I think that the weak stk brakes are a serious safety issue for some members. How each of us chose to deal w/them is an individual matter. I don't go to track days yet, if I do, I'm sure the limits of my system will be found. I have no knowledge or strong opinon about the aftermarket systems being discussed, nor did I offer one. JMHO

Rick
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Old 07-01-2005, 08:57 AM   #15
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I would not recommend C5 rotors and calipers. It is a huge pain in the *** and you cannot keep the e-brake.

The fronts require modifying the hubs and custom brackets fabricated. The rears also require custom brackets and I machined the rotor instead of the hub. You also need 17" wheels with lots of caliper clearance.

Like was said before you have to use a C5 or other master cylinder with a 3/4" bore and those are not exactly easy to find. The C5 master does not just bolt on either. You have to space it out from the firewall about 1.25" and lower it about 1". This is just to clear the hood. Then you have to find the fittings for a metric 12mm bubble flare. Also not that easy to find. And if that weren't enough, the master needs 1/4" line for the front and rear whereas the proportioning valve needs 3/16" line for the front and 1/4" for the rear.

Many obstacles to overcome and quite frankly, I wish I had gone for the willwoods.
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Old 07-01-2005, 09:00 AM   #16
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my comment about different opinions of good brakes was directed at hydroboost.

I am getting to the point that I probably wouldn't sell brackets to someone who is running hydroboost. Not untill I can see a pressure reading. My understanding it it can supply 2500psi of line preassure which is well beyond an automotive caliper rating. not a good idea.
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Old 07-01-2005, 09:41 AM   #17
UKPaul
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There's this lot:
http://www.movit.de
A few people here have converted their Vettes to them (highly modified ZR1's, C5's, etc) & really rate them as brilliant stoppers. They do a conversion for the C3 but I don't know of anybody that's done it (the conversions aren't cheap).
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Old 07-01-2005, 10:27 AM   #18
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Once you know the price you will understand why there are so few running them, with rebuilt brembos (from a porsche) it's about 2000$ per axle.
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Old 07-01-2005, 11:33 AM   #19
Taijutsu
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It looks like C5 brakes are out of the question. Any other reasonable options out there?
As far as hydraboost putting too much pressure on calipers, the tech from VB&P didn't think that it was a problem.
So we are back to rebuilt stockers or big dollars. I guess I will have to live w/what I have now. What about Bear brakes, don't they have something for a C3?

Rick
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Old 07-01-2005, 11:53 AM   #20
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i plan on using 2 peice rotors and maybe switching to superlites
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Old 07-01-2005, 11:53 AM
 
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