King Lear

I did write Chevy High Performance magazine and informed them of how the procomp heads are getting peddled as pro-topline and rhs heads, also I informed them about all the magazines and internet crate guys are using these things. Any head that has a casting of PC3001-####-#### above the exhaust middle ports are a ProComp Electronics cylinder head. I asked them if they would actually do a test on them so more chevy people dont fall victim to the same scam as the rest of us. Let us find out for sure if they work or they are junk. I did write Chevy High Performance magazine and informed them of how the procomp heads are getting peddled as pro-topline and rhs heads, also I informed them about all the magazines ads and internet crate guys are using these things. I asked them if they would actually do a test on them so more chevy people dont fall victim to the same scam as the rest of us. Let us find out for sure if they work or they are junk.

Z-man

Hmmm....

Did rhs buy out pro-topline? I thought I heard that. What are Pro-comps?

King Lear

Yep, pro-topline was bought by RHS. I have confirmed with RHS that all of RHS heads have RHS in the casting. The old pro-topline casting they do not use.
Pro-comp is taking advantage of this and peddling their chinese foundary heads sold out of Australia and warehouse suppliers are saying they are the rhs pro-topline head. I assure you they are not. Here is an ebay auction of them, anything that has PC3001 stamped into the casting above the exhaust port is a procomp head.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PROCO...spagenameZWDVW

http://www.procompelectronics.com/

SIXFOOTER

I understand your point and agree with you completely. It seems they are selling these heads and representing them as a Brand Name genuine product when they are in fact knock offs. However, for the price as long as they work and hang in there its not a bad deal. The add says the hardware is good and has a .400" deck thicknes so they don't sound bad, if you can believe them.
I wonder how the performance and longevity actually is on these things.

King Lear

I will know in the spring, I am going to have my car dyno'ed to see just how much power these 190cc heads can make on my 383. If I am over 450hp and 500ft lbs I will keep em, if not victor jr's are on the way!

bashcraft

I don't understand something. Did you buy these heads from ProComp or someone else?

King Lear

I didn't buy them, what happened was, I had my engine rebuilt to a 383 stroker. I was going to spend around 1000 on heads, I was leaning towards the Jegs 197cc housebrand which are Canfields. My builder said he would check with his suppliers and see what he got them for. He called me back and said 1000 for the same Canfield head that I would get at Jegs for 1300. Got the car back everything runs good still using too much oil though.
My father in law gets his done by the same guy. He said they are RHS heads, I look at them and they are the exact same as mine. So I start investigating. Called both RHS and Canfield both tell me the same. Look at ProComp. I found out they are either 160cc or 190cc ProComp heads. The only way to find out is to pull my intake off and measure them.
So this week I went to my builder and told him they were procomp and he was either screwing me or they are screwing him. He said he never checked with them since they just told him they were RHS. Which is what is happening, people are trying to claim these are the pro-topline now owned by RHS head. He will change them for my original choice of canfields but he wants to charge me 530 to do it. I am not paying a dime. Unfortunately my receipt just says sbc alum heads(which I got), my father in laws states RHS heads. Now he has a law suit if he chooses, I on the other hand am screwed!

bashcraft

OK, I understand why your pi$$ed, but why are you bashing ProComp so badly when your problem lies with your engine builder and whoever he bought the heads from, which I'm assuming wasn't directly from ProComp?

bashcraft

He has no right to charge you anything. He didn't give you what you bought and he admitted that. He should be reimbursed for his labor from the people who told him they were Canfield heads, if this is what really happened. I think I would find a different engine builder.

King Lear

I plan to, regardless if it is him or them that is lying, I will never do any new business with him again. If he is telling the truth then I can't trust the people he gets his stuff from. I dont think it is the builder since he actually wrote RHS cylinder heads on the receipt. I think his supplier is just taking advantage of an older trusting guy.

King Lear

I am not bashing procomp, I just want people to be aware what is going on so they dont get overcharged for something they are not getting. My only beef with procomp is they cant tell me what cc I have by the production number.

King Lear

Here is the name of the distributor that is selling ProComps as RHS heads. I called ProComp and once I said Nickels Performance, he pulled there file, ran my number and told me they are 190cc runners. So Nickels obviously knows they are not RHS since they got them straight from ProComp. Thanks to ProComp for finally being able to tell me what is on my engine.

Nickels Performance Warehouse
1044 Fordtown Rd.
Kingsport, TN 37663
Ph. 423-349-7125

Has anyone ever dealt with them before?

turtlevette

probably because of a sloppy fitting forged piston. I was pissed many years ago when my motor burned more oil after i rebuilt it than with 130k miles.

King Lear

It is still under warranty so I am going to put another 500 miles on it and then if oil keeps disappearing he said he will tear it down to find out why. So he is going to stand by his work at least that much I am happy about.

Z-man

Those Procomps are very different from my Pro-toplines. But the Procomp and Ebay guys don't appear to be saying that the are the toplines. I've got pix if anyone wants to see...

GOSFAST

Below is a post I made some months ago concerning these particular PC-3001A heads. These were the 195cc x 2.020"s x 1.600"s and non-ported. They did recieve a minimal gasket match on the intakes and nothing more. Runners were "as-cast". We were impressed with the results. They will make 450 HP and 450 Torque easily on a "base" 383" hyd-roller unit. If you work on them they can be brought up to the 500 HP area. We have not tested any of the larger runners. On our more serious units we simply need heavier castings to get up to the 600 HP numbers.

[Quote] That part number is the "Chinese" heads we tested on the dyno a few months ago. Supposedly they are "Made in Australia". In reality only the "paper-trail" goes back to Australia, the castings are definitely from China. We had been approched by a local warehouse which was considering taking on the line. They did so after we passed them the test results and they "upped" the HP claims in their ads. They initially were going to read as being able to deliver 420 HP "from the box", that number went to 450 HP.

Now having said that, these SB heads actually do work reasonably well for what they cost. They will support 450 HP on our "pump-gas" 383 basic strokers without any aggressive porting, only very slight "massaging", we would actually say "just cleaning up the runners". The ones we tested had the identical part number (PC-3001) and as I stated, performed well. They were delivered to us with the 2.020"/1.600" valves and springs for the test.

The CFM for the intake valve was 260 (average) at .600" lift and the exhaust was 170 @ .600". These numbers are from both our flow benches not from the ads. Not all that bad for "inexpensive" Chinese aluminum heads.

These heads can actually be brought up to "excellent" flow numbers by almost anyone familiar with some "basic" porting procedures. We have a unit at the door, waiting to be picked up, a 383 SB with these #3001 heads on top that made 440 HP and 450 Ft.Lbs. torque. This was a non-ported set. Thanks, Gary in N.Y. [End quote]

As I said, these SB heads deliver the numbers and then some.

Now let me hit on a couple more issues here, first, ANY performance shop building your heads MUST be able to supply a flow chart to those specific heads, if they can't do that, they really can't do the heads properly, second, you MUST know the specifics of the parts installed with ALL the correct part numbers. This is for your own "protection" and records. It's up to the shop to make recommendations based on their own history, this would include flow numbers, dyno numbers, etc.

Below is the flow numbers on the 195's mentioned above, I do not have
the numbers for the larger runners, as I would not need them on an
"average" 383"/400" platform.

PES PC-3001A (2.02's B/C, 1.600's B/C, 195 intakes, NO porting)
Lift/Intake/Exhaust
.100"-60/49
.200"-110/85
.300"-155/123
.400"-199/146
.500"-236/162
.550"-245/166
.600"-260/170
.650"-XXX/173

As to the parts we prefer, I will not use Manley valves and prefer to stay with Ferrea's in all our builds. I prefer Comps springs and retainers, second choice would be Crane components. The brand of heads to us is not too relevant, we do all our own in-house porting!
Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. We've just been approached by another warehouse to test a set of the "EQ" series of iron SB heads. These will also be tested on the dyno. However they want these to have some porting. I still have to work out the details, it's still in the planning stage as of tonight!

King Lear

Exactly, they look nothing alike, No, not ebay that is too easy to bust. The ones I am talking about the are like the distributors my builder got it from. Do a google for both and you find all kinds of articles of guys who own these pro-comps and thought they were buying pro-topline, lots of ford guys and on corral, to me I think they are probably both similiar in quality.
I am just trying to get the word out so people dont fall victim for a lack of warning. Dont get me wrong, they are running fine but I have quality crane springs, valves, etc in them to support my roller.

I am just trying to inform people to inspect before you buy so you dont over pay.

King Lear

Thanks to Gary for real numbers,
According to the CCams desktop dyno avdanced with all my numbers plugged with the above flow my engine should produce 464hp @ 5000rpm and 537 ft lbs of tq @ 4500 going by cam timing duration. 525hp @ 5500 rpms and 535 ft lbs of TQ @ 4500 rpms going with seat to seat timing.
If I am at all close to that in reality I would be very pleased.
I have a 11:1 CR with all the numbers plugged in. I have eagle 383 kit flat top pistons 64cc 190cc PC heads, comp cams roller tip rockers, Crane Hyd Rol .509/.528 lift 222/230 @.050, RPM Air Gap intake, Quick Fuel 750 carb, Hooker Super Comp side pipes, MSD 6al ignition.