Ok, Here's The Info I Promised On The Dent Removal Tool Time & Difficulty (pics)
03-04-2007, 01:04 AM
#1
Just another Corvette guy
Thread Starter
Ok, Here's The Info I Promised On The Dent Removal Tool Time & Difficulty (pics)
If you missed the original thread a little over a month ago I'll bring you up to speed.
There was some discussion about the front cross member dent removal tool now available and several members were wondering if it worked, how difficult it was to use and was anyone willing to gamble over $100 to find out. I decided to buy the tool, try it and post a fair and honest report here on the forum as to its use. If it worked out I offered to "rent" it to any forum member who needs it for $25. Several members were interested so when my car got back from the paint shop this week I scheduled the job for this afternoon.
I am not affiliated in any way with TJA Tooling Inc. who manufactures this tool or with Terry, the fella who sells it. I've never met him. We've coresponded by e-mail several times since this started. I'm just a forum member looking to share some honest info with my Corvette Bro's.
I'm a 26 year veteran of the automotive repair industry, I spent many years with GM as top flight electrical tech and heavy line tech. I'm ASE Certified, GM certified, etc. Corvettes have been my specialty for a couple of decades, I've owned about 50 of them and done every repair you can do to them including several frame off restorations, so I thought I could give a pretty fair estimate of this tool.
It's a good idea as most C2's and C3's have a dented front cross member.
In all fairness to the average Vette owner working at home in his garage I decided to do this job in my garage, on the floor, with a floor jack and stands, a creeper and a very basic set of hand tools anyone should have. No hoist, no compressor, no pneumatic tools, no torch. Of course the job would be much faster and easier if you own/use these items.
The car I used is a relatively clean, rust free Southern California car so rust is not an issue but, as the directions for the tool say, you'll want to blast the garden hose and some degreaser in and around the area you're going to be working, especially inside the cross member to wash out all the crud from two or three decades of driving.
You can do this from either side of the car. I decided to pull the driver's side apart.
This dent was pretty severe. It covered a fairly large area and was about three quarters of an inch deep in the center.
First remove the caliper so you don't stretch or tear the brake hose. Install a small block of wood or a socket between the pads so you can slip it right back over the rotor when you're done.
You will not have to bleed the brakes when the job is fimished as you won't be opening the hydraulic system. Hang the caliper out of the way with a bungee cord or a piece of wire. I popped the upper ball joint apart to remove the spring. IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE THIS BEFORE THIS PART IS IMPORTANT. The spring tension loaded on the control arms is pretty forcefull. Easy to deal with as long as you know how. I unload the suspension with the floor jack under the lower control arm, remove the cotter pin from the upper ball joint nut, back the nut off about half a dozen turns and then use a good sized hammer to hit the side of the spindle mount exactly where the ball joint passes through it. One sharp hit should do it. You'll see the upper control arm snap up to where you have the nut loosend. Make sure the floor jack is up high enough to where you are almost lifting the car off the jack stands then slowly remove the nut and allow the upper control arm to raise out of the ball joint hole. Slowly lower the floor jack until it is free of the lower control arm. The spring may still hang in its perch but it will have almost no tension and you should be able to pop it right out with a pry bar. Just before you remove it, mark it with a crayon or a zip tie so you can re-install it in the same position.
BINGO! The spring is out. It took me 15 minutes to get to this point.
Access GRANTED!This is the upper hole you'll be working through.
The "shoe" part of the tool fits easily into the hole and slides down far enough to use a screw driver from below to align it.
UH OH! Access DENIED!
The shoe would not fit tight enough to the rear of the cross member in order to align the bolt hole with the cross member hole. Prying would not get it close.
I was not anxious to alter the tool so I e-mailed Terry with my dilemma and waited...
Terry got back to me within an hour with a kind offer to refund my money and shipping cost. This was generous but, after all, we still needed to repair the car. I had been examining the tool and cross member during this hour and determined the problem was due to the
limited space between the dented area on the bottom of the cross member and the factory "dent" to accommodate the big block pulleys on the top of the cross member. Terry agreed and we decided that grinding a 45 degree angle onto the rear of the shoe may correct this problem without compromising the tool.
I spent the next hour or so grinding and re-fitting the tool into place until it finally accepted the bolt.
The tool installed and I was sure to line it up squarely on the cross member.
Using a half inch drive ratchet and socket the bolt turned quite easily and the dent pulled out fast.
With the tool still in place I used a hammer to tap down the slight ridges of any remaining dents.
When I removed the tool I could still see the area was a little rougher than I'd like so I taped a few of the shims in place and re-applied the tool.
After the tool and shims were removed the cross member looked remarkably well considering how bad it had been.
I wire brushed it clean...
...used a few shots of Low Gloss Black engine enamel...
...and...It turned out very well.
Time to re-assemble.
Don't forget to place the caliper hose on the INSIDE of the ball joint, under the upper control arm before re-assemling.
Re-checked at the end and I was very satisfied. Depending on how long you wanted to work the shims, you could eventually get the cross member as smooth as glass.
FINISHED!
My overall opinion of this job, time and tool?
I spent more time altering the tool than doing the repair to the car. This tool fills a real need for almost all Corvette owners. I think it should have spent a little longer in R&D at TJA Tooling Inc. before it was offered for sale. It should have been tried on many dents of varying severity to find the best overall fit for all Corvettes. This would eliminate making the end user a part of the research and development and let them get right to the job at hand.
Anyone with average intelligence (or slightly less) and a basic set of home tools can easily do this job in 1 and a half to 2 hours at home. If your frame is bare or removed during a complete restoration you could literally do this job in ten minutes.
So, if you need it and you're ready for it, PM me or e-mail me and I'll rent it to you for $20 plus shipping.
Best,
Greg
There was some discussion about the front cross member dent removal tool now available and several members were wondering if it worked, how difficult it was to use and was anyone willing to gamble over $100 to find out. I decided to buy the tool, try it and post a fair and honest report here on the forum as to its use. If it worked out I offered to "rent" it to any forum member who needs it for $25. Several members were interested so when my car got back from the paint shop this week I scheduled the job for this afternoon.
I am not affiliated in any way with TJA Tooling Inc. who manufactures this tool or with Terry, the fella who sells it. I've never met him. We've coresponded by e-mail several times since this started. I'm just a forum member looking to share some honest info with my Corvette Bro's.
I'm a 26 year veteran of the automotive repair industry, I spent many years with GM as top flight electrical tech and heavy line tech. I'm ASE Certified, GM certified, etc. Corvettes have been my specialty for a couple of decades, I've owned about 50 of them and done every repair you can do to them including several frame off restorations, so I thought I could give a pretty fair estimate of this tool.
It's a good idea as most C2's and C3's have a dented front cross member.
In all fairness to the average Vette owner working at home in his garage I decided to do this job in my garage, on the floor, with a floor jack and stands, a creeper and a very basic set of hand tools anyone should have. No hoist, no compressor, no pneumatic tools, no torch. Of course the job would be much faster and easier if you own/use these items.
The car I used is a relatively clean, rust free Southern California car so rust is not an issue but, as the directions for the tool say, you'll want to blast the garden hose and some degreaser in and around the area you're going to be working, especially inside the cross member to wash out all the crud from two or three decades of driving.
You can do this from either side of the car. I decided to pull the driver's side apart.
This dent was pretty severe. It covered a fairly large area and was about three quarters of an inch deep in the center.
First remove the caliper so you don't stretch or tear the brake hose. Install a small block of wood or a socket between the pads so you can slip it right back over the rotor when you're done.
You will not have to bleed the brakes when the job is fimished as you won't be opening the hydraulic system. Hang the caliper out of the way with a bungee cord or a piece of wire. I popped the upper ball joint apart to remove the spring. IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE THIS BEFORE THIS PART IS IMPORTANT. The spring tension loaded on the control arms is pretty forcefull. Easy to deal with as long as you know how. I unload the suspension with the floor jack under the lower control arm, remove the cotter pin from the upper ball joint nut, back the nut off about half a dozen turns and then use a good sized hammer to hit the side of the spindle mount exactly where the ball joint passes through it. One sharp hit should do it. You'll see the upper control arm snap up to where you have the nut loosend. Make sure the floor jack is up high enough to where you are almost lifting the car off the jack stands then slowly remove the nut and allow the upper control arm to raise out of the ball joint hole. Slowly lower the floor jack until it is free of the lower control arm. The spring may still hang in its perch but it will have almost no tension and you should be able to pop it right out with a pry bar. Just before you remove it, mark it with a crayon or a zip tie so you can re-install it in the same position.
BINGO! The spring is out. It took me 15 minutes to get to this point.
Access GRANTED!This is the upper hole you'll be working through.
The "shoe" part of the tool fits easily into the hole and slides down far enough to use a screw driver from below to align it.
UH OH! Access DENIED!
The shoe would not fit tight enough to the rear of the cross member in order to align the bolt hole with the cross member hole. Prying would not get it close.
I was not anxious to alter the tool so I e-mailed Terry with my dilemma and waited...
Terry got back to me within an hour with a kind offer to refund my money and shipping cost. This was generous but, after all, we still needed to repair the car. I had been examining the tool and cross member during this hour and determined the problem was due to the
limited space between the dented area on the bottom of the cross member and the factory "dent" to accommodate the big block pulleys on the top of the cross member. Terry agreed and we decided that grinding a 45 degree angle onto the rear of the shoe may correct this problem without compromising the tool.
I spent the next hour or so grinding and re-fitting the tool into place until it finally accepted the bolt.
The tool installed and I was sure to line it up squarely on the cross member.
Using a half inch drive ratchet and socket the bolt turned quite easily and the dent pulled out fast.
With the tool still in place I used a hammer to tap down the slight ridges of any remaining dents.
When I removed the tool I could still see the area was a little rougher than I'd like so I taped a few of the shims in place and re-applied the tool.
After the tool and shims were removed the cross member looked remarkably well considering how bad it had been.
I wire brushed it clean...
...used a few shots of Low Gloss Black engine enamel...
...and...It turned out very well.
Time to re-assemble.
Don't forget to place the caliper hose on the INSIDE of the ball joint, under the upper control arm before re-assemling.
Re-checked at the end and I was very satisfied. Depending on how long you wanted to work the shims, you could eventually get the cross member as smooth as glass.
FINISHED!
My overall opinion of this job, time and tool?
I spent more time altering the tool than doing the repair to the car. This tool fills a real need for almost all Corvette owners. I think it should have spent a little longer in R&D at TJA Tooling Inc. before it was offered for sale. It should have been tried on many dents of varying severity to find the best overall fit for all Corvettes. This would eliminate making the end user a part of the research and development and let them get right to the job at hand.
Anyone with average intelligence (or slightly less) and a basic set of home tools can easily do this job in 1 and a half to 2 hours at home. If your frame is bare or removed during a complete restoration you could literally do this job in ten minutes.
So, if you need it and you're ready for it, PM me or e-mail me and I'll rent it to you for $20 plus shipping.
Best,
Greg
03-04-2007, 09:32 AM
#5
Race Director
Nice work Greg. I have the same dent in my frame as probably does most folks on here. Glad to know the tool works. One question I have is how do you get the tool back out of the frame? Is the opening big enough to put your hand down in there to pull it back out? I think maybe a hole in one corner with a piece of string tied to it would allow you to pull it back out easy.
03-04-2007, 12:10 PM
#9
Just another Corvette guy
Thread Starter
Eddie 70,
No problem at all. You push the tool to the side of center with a screw driver, from the same access hole where you install the bolt, then you can easily reach right in and grab it. I didn't think I would be able to at first but there's a lot more room in there than it looks like.
Best,
Greg
No problem at all. You push the tool to the side of center with a screw driver, from the same access hole where you install the bolt, then you can easily reach right in and grab it. I didn't think I would be able to at first but there's a lot more room in there than it looks like.
Best,
Greg
Last edited by Greg; 03-04-2007 at 12:53 PM.
03-04-2007, 04:59 PM
#11
Just another Corvette guy
Thread Starter
Hey Gang,
Bruce (7t2vette) had a pretty good idea that I think I should share. He suggested that any members who want to use this tool may want to forward it directly from the last user to the next instead of all the way back to me. This could really save some $$$ in shipping.
Just let me know where it is going to be and PayPal me $20 for the use.
Sound fair?
Best,
Greg
Bruce (7t2vette) had a pretty good idea that I think I should share. He suggested that any members who want to use this tool may want to forward it directly from the last user to the next instead of all the way back to me. This could really save some $$$ in shipping.
Just let me know where it is going to be and PayPal me $20 for the use.
Sound fair?
Best,
Greg
03-04-2007, 05:43 PM
#12
Race Director
I'm in on that. I may have been first but if it is going to work its way out East I can wait. Mine will be easy and quick due to the front mono spring I just installed.
03-05-2007, 09:25 AM
#13
Thanks for the info.
What would the effort be if you have the front mono-spring setup? No coils to deal with, right? But does the mono-spring run under the cross member?
Not that I have one or anything.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
What would the effort be if you have the front mono-spring setup? No coils to deal with, right? But does the mono-spring run under the cross member?
Not that I have one or anything.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
03-05-2007, 10:32 AM
#15
Just another Corvette guy
Thread Starter
mayberg,
I'm not sure how this would work with the mono spring set up. Maybe someone better versed in that area could chime in?
Thanks SIXFOOTER!
Best,
Greg
I'm not sure how this would work with the mono spring set up. Maybe someone better versed in that area could chime in?
Thanks SIXFOOTER!
Best,
Greg
03-05-2007, 11:28 AM
#16
Race Director
You will have to remove the front mono spring but it really takes about 5 minutes to do this. 8 small 1/2 20 bolts then the two large outside bolts, just like the rear spring bolts and the spring is off. No ball joints or even the shock does not have to come out. The spring pocket is wide open so it should be a breeze to do.
03-05-2007, 03:54 PM
#18
Heel & Toe
Member Since: Dec 2005
Location: New Zealand
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Hurts my eyes every time I look under my car 
Great write up !!
I have the same big dent - thought I would have to cut and weld in a patch of some sort.
Now I have hope - where can I order this part ?
Great write up !!
I have the same big dent - thought I would have to cut and weld in a patch of some sort.
Now I have hope - where can I order this part ?
03-05-2007, 05:03 PM
#19
Just another Corvette guy
Thread Starter
OK guys,
Here's the best way to ship. I can send the tool anywhere in the continental US in USPS Flat Rate box for $8.10 no matter the weight or area. Outside the lower 48 will be different of course.
First in line is Gordon in New Jersey so if you're close to him you may want to get in line. Bruce (7t2vette) in Ontario spoke up second so maybe Gordon can ship it to him.
tallguy222, Just let me know when you need the tool, send me $20 by PayPal and it we'll send it to you.
Questions? Pm me or e-mail me at bythepool@verizon.net
Best,
Greg
Here's the best way to ship. I can send the tool anywhere in the continental US in USPS Flat Rate box for $8.10 no matter the weight or area. Outside the lower 48 will be different of course.
First in line is Gordon in New Jersey so if you're close to him you may want to get in line. Bruce (7t2vette) in Ontario spoke up second so maybe Gordon can ship it to him.
tallguy222, Just let me know when you need the tool, send me $20 by PayPal and it we'll send it to you.
Questions? Pm me or e-mail me at bythepool@verizon.net
Best,
Greg
