Mako72

I am installing a Keisler TKO-600 kit into my smallblock '72. We followed the Keisler install instructions to the T. We can get the transmission to within 5/8" of the bellhousing and it will not go in any farther (see picture). Per instructions, the clutch disc was aligned with the alignment tool before tightening down the pressure plate. It appears that the transmission input shaft is engaged in the clutch disc. With one person pushing the trans in, I depressed the clutch pedal which usually will let the transmission slide in flush against the bellhousing. But that didn't help, the trans just refuses to go in any closer than 5/8" of the bellhousing. It almost appears that the roller pilot bearing is stopping the input shaft tip. I've got the 4 trans to bellhousing bolts loosely threaded into the bellhousing. So the trans should be fairly squared to the bellhousing, the trans is supported and not hanging in the air, so the trans should slide right in. We even pulled everything back apart and went through the install process again only to get stopped at 5/8" of the bellhousing face. I've had the original muncie in and out probably 6 times over the 30 years I've owned the car, changed out clutches on other cars as well but I've never ran into something like this. Have any of you Tremec TKO owners ran into this or have any ideas on what I should checking? Thanks.

Crunch-o-Matic

Mako72 -- I did this install in my 73 vert but I was swapping over from a th400. However, I had to rotate the TKO on it's axis back and forth to get it to seat. The fit around the pilot bearing was snug.

From your post I assume the clutch and pressure plate are installed correctly. Therefore, the tranny should go in...

Not sure I was much help...

Cheers,

Crunch

rjmonty

I'm having the same problem installing a T5 into my 76. I tried several things. First I tried to insert the input shaft without the BH. Input shaft goes in with a lot of coaxing.
I measured the distance between the block and the trans when the input shaft was seated. Measured 6 1/4" which is the same depth of the BH.
Next I put the BH back on and still could not get the input shaft to seat. So off comes the BH and the pressure plate and clutch disk and tried to see what, if anything is binding. Again, the input shaft goes in with a lot of coaxing.
I then wrapped a piece of emery cloth around a wooden dowel and put it in my drill to take a little off the I.D. of the pilot bushing. I forgot to mention I had a bushing not a bearing.
Bottom line is I can't get the input shaft to seat with clutch, PP and BH on.
I only thought now is that when I beat the pilot bushing in with a wooden block and hammer, I distorted it. So my plan is to take everything apart, remove the fly wheel, remove the pilot bushing and replace it with a new one... carefully with the fly wheel off the car.

Binnie77

Just a couple things that come to mind. Did you test slide the clutch disc on the shaft of the transmission? Did you test the pilot bearing on the end of the shaft before assembly? Also, is there any obstructions above the transmission that you can not see, like sheet metal screws or brackets that may be holding it back? Do not force it, obviously something is wrong.

MYBAD79

I noticed that I could not get the trans all the way in without using the bolts (short wrench, very careful...). The diametrical fit is very tight, I could not just push it in by hand. A big part of this problem is that my engine is on a dolly, as soon as I tried to push the trans into the fit the entire engine would move.
Use anti seize on the male and female part of this fit.

On your photo it looks like there's still a small gap (axially) and this is likely not your problem.

Mako72

Crunch, thanks for the reply. We did do some rotating on the axis as we tried to get it to seat before installing the 4 trans to bellhousing bolts but it still wouldn't seat. This is my first experience using the GM roller pilot bearing. I guess the old bronze oilite bearing were more forgiving of any slight misalignment. I know the input shaft tip has a slight taper to facilitate insertion into the roller pilot bearing. When we retry inserting the transmission, I'll keep in mind that the fit is snug with these new type bearings. Thanks.

Mako72

RJ, thanks for the reply. Like you, I was very careful when seating the roller pilot bearing making sure to use a socket that was the same size as the OD of the roller pilot bearing.

Mako72

Binnie, thanks for the reply. Yes I did pre try the 26 spline clutch disc on the input shaft of the TKO-600 and it fit fine. I'm pretty sure that the TKO input shaft splines are engaged in the clutch disc because I am within 5/8" of the bellhousing. To be honest, I may have not tried the Keisler supplied roller bearing on the TKO input shaft just assuming that the correct one was sent with the kit. But I made up a clutch disc alignment tool per Keislers instructions. I cut off a Dorman P/N 14523 (26 spline x 1 1/8" bore) clutch alignment tool per Keislers dimensions, installed the rollpin and retrival wire. The tip of the tool (which should be the same ID as the TKO input shaft tip) fit into the roller pilot bearing fine when I aligned the clutch disc.

Mako72

79, thanks for the reply. At this point I am hesitant about using the 4 trans to bellhousing bolts to draw the transmission up to the bellhousing. But you echo an reappearing theme here. Evidently the tolerances must be supertight when using the GM roller pilot bearing.

MYBAD79

In my case it was only the clearance between the inner diameter of the bellhousing and the outer diamter of the transmission case, not the pilot bearing.
You really don't apply a lot of force when you use the bolts to pull the transmission - just apply reasonable force, use a stubby wrench and not an impact...

BB72

Has anybody thought of having one person in the car pushing slightly on the clutch to loosen the clutch disc a little so that any misalignment can be eliminated? Jiggle the tranny.... .... ....under your car....and see if the shaft will slide in. just a thought. No freudian slip jokes ok.

Mako72

79, OK, I see what you were talking about. I won't be able to work on this installation until next week but maybe a slight preload via the 4 trans to bellhousing bolts may faciliate it seating.

BB72, Yes we tried slightly pushing in on the clutch pedal both times we tried the install. This trick has always worked in the past but for some reason, not with this TKO/roller bearing combo.

gkull

Have you verified with a dial indicator that your bell housing to be centered?

You stated depressing the clutch allowed forward movement. That to me would indicate that your throw out bearing is not correctly placed on the clutch fork.

You actually don't want the clutch fork attached to any lower linkage when you install the tranny. You want it loose and movable to slide over the tranny input shaft.

Mako72

GK, yes I did the runout check (max runout was .0015) so I was OK there. I double checked the throwout bearing placement on the fork both times we attempted the install. Perhaps I was a little vague about pushing in on the clutch pedal. What I meant to say was after getting the trans pushed in as far as it would go with the clutch linkage unhooked, I reattached the clutch linkage and slightly pushed in on the clutch pedal as my friend was pushing on the transmission. Usually this does the trick but not this time.

Z069L88

I had a similiar problem with my install. Turns out the plastic clutch alignment tool that I brought was a piece of junk. It didn't proplerly align the clutch disc/fingers to the flywheel and pivot bearing, making the last few inches difficult to push the transmission in. Remove the bellhousing, loosen the clutch pressure plate bolts and re-align the clutch to the flywheel. I used an old input shift from a Muncie transmission for the clutch alignment and the problem disappeared.

rj8806

Mako72:
We had a customer with the exact same issue and it turned out to be that when he set the alignment tool, he didn't have it engaged in the pilot bearing.
I would go back and check that the disc is aligned properly. The i.d. of the pilot bearing should be .600". We only stock one size for the GM so I don't think that is the problem.
DON"T use the tranny bolts to suck it up to the bellhousing. I've had 1/2 dozen calls from guys who did and they broke the ear off of the case and had to replace the case.

Richard

Mako72

Z06, I've got a metal clutch alignment tool but it won't work when installing a TKO-600 in a C3. A shortened clutch alignment tool is needed to position the clutch disk when attempting a TKO-600 install without cutting the crossmember. Now if I could find an old muncie input shaft and shorten it.....

Mako72

Hi Richard, above is a pic of the tool I made from a 26 spline x 1 1/8" bore Dorman plastic alignment tool I bought from Advance auto. Keisler specs calls for a total length of 2 1/2" to 2 3/4", so I cut it at 2 5/8". I had the tool inserted until it was flush with the trans side of the clutch disk splines but perhaps it was not enough to fully engage the roller pilot bearing. I will make another tool but cut it off at a longer length, that way ensuring I am fully inserted into the roller pilot bearing as well as supporting the clutch disc fully. I won't be able to try this until next week but will report back with the results. Now if I can con my friend to giving me another hand with the install. I think he has sworn off working on C3s.

redc3

and as with any clutch aligning tool, you have to support it while tightening the bolts. you can just stick it in there or it will come down slightly. and tightning of the bellhousing bolts can be dicey, but it is a viable option to a certain degree

Midwest Vette

Charles, It is going to take alot more than that to scare me off. I am not going to let that C3 kick my butt.