565 build (guess my HP and win a prize)
07-21-2007, 10:05 PM
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565 build (guess my HP and win a prize)
Hi guys. I haven’t been able to participate here much lately because of lots of long days at work and lots of travel. Work has also put a big damper on my engine project for the past several months. Last January I started building an Aluminum 565 to replace the ZL-1 engine in my 71. The ZL-1 is going in a 69 I recently picked up.
My overall objective was to create an engine that is about the weight of a small block, be very streetable and produce over 700 HP naturally aspirated on pump gas with stump pulling torque. There are many ways to get there and I am sure there are less costly as well as more costly ways than the route I took. This will probably be my last major build because I am looking forward to retiring in the not too distant future and my car budget will take a significant hit. As part of this project I also plan to install a roll cage and Tom’s 12 bolt rear end kit. But that will come later.
My good friend Dean (owner of Cresap Racing Engines in Cumberland Md.) did all the machine work / porting and helped me with the research on component selection. The components we went with are as follows:
Block: Brodix Aluminum 4.6” bore short deck (P/N 8B-2000A)
Crankshaft: Eagle 4.25 stroke 4340 Forged Steel, (P/N 445442526385)
Connecting Rods: Eagle 4340 H-beam ESP with ARP 2000 bolts (P/N CRS63853D2000)
Pistons: J&E forged flat top (131390)
Piston Rings: Total Seal with gapless top ring (P/N M9150-5)
Cylinder Heads: DART 335 CNC Pro-1 milled to 108 CC, valves un-shrouded in chamber to 4.6” bore
Camshaft: Custom P/N 4SF680/690, Solid. Roller, Lift (.660” I, .639” E), Duration @ .050” (256° I, 265° E), 4,7 and 2,3 swap fire (LS1 firing order), 108 Intake CL, 110 Lobe separation
Lifters: Comp Cams, Solid Roller (P/N 866-16) with positive oil feed to the needle bearings
Intake Valves: Ferrea 2.3” Stainless Steel, 11/32” Stem (P/N F1219P)
Exhaust Valves: Ferrea 1.9” Stainless Steel, 11/32” Stem 24 deg super flow (P/N F1261P)
Valve Springs: Comp Cams 953-16 outer with damper 4773-16 inner
Valve Spring Ret.: Comp Cams 10 deg Steel (P/N 741-16)
Stud Girdle assy: DART (P/N 64110001)
Push Rods: Cresap Racing Hi Tech 4340 Steel, Swedged Ends, 3/8” Dia. (P/N 7931-1 Int, P/N 7941-1 exh)
Rocker Arms: Comp Cams Pro Magnum, 1.7 Ratio, Roller (P/N 1320-16)
Intake Manifold: Edelbrock Victor Jr., Rectangular Port Single Plane (P/N 2902), Welded / fully ported and port matched to heads and milled for hood clearance
Carburetor: 950 CFM TACO
Timing Chain: Hex-A-Just true roller (P/N 9-3110A)
Timing Cover: Comp Cams Aluminum two piece (P/N 212)
Oil Pan: Milodon road race (P/N 31555)
Windage Tray: Milodon (P/N 32200)
Damper: ATI 7.25” internal balance (P/N 917060)
Water Pump: Edelbrock Victor short (P/N 8850)
Head Studs: ARP
Main Studs: ARP
Head Gasket: Cometic .040” (P/N COMC5334-040)
Intake Gasket: Cometic .060” (P/N IR122060KF)
Deck: .000
Compression Ratio: 10.2
Valve Lash: Intake .028”, Exhaust .028”
The CAM, heads and intake define the character of the engine and for best results they have to work together. The cam I ended up with, at first glance, would appear to be on the small side to provide the HP level I was shooting for. 565 inches can take a lot of cam and remain streetable. To finish this story and communicate how we came up with the Cam I need to tell you a few things about Dean (Cresap Racing Engines). He has been a close friend for many years and he turns his shop over to me. He builds mostly small block Chevys and Fords for circle track folks but also does a lot of rebuilds for classic car owners. His machine shop is fully equipped to do anything needed on an engine including a flow bench and a Super Flow 902 Dyno cell.
Dean is always experimenting with ways to stay a little bit ahead of the competition and found a custom cam grinder that supplies him with cams that typically make 20 to 40 more HP in his circle track engines than similar grinds from popular suppliers. I had specified a solid roller cam I wanted to go with but Dean talked me into giving his grinder a crack at it. The Cam listed above was the grinder’s recommendation. It is a solid roller street grind and swaps the 2 – 3 and 7 -4 firing order to yield the same firing order as an LS-X engines. This smoothes out the idle, puts less stress on the crank and by some accounts is good for some additional power. Dean is very protective of his cam source to maintain his competitive edge so he won’t even disclose the grinder to me so I can’t tell you who ground the cam.
I finally completed the assembly and we dynoed the engine a few days ago. It survived all 40 pulls and we found an additional 13 HP seating the rings and 30 HP with the tune. I included some photos of the build here but to keep you on the edge of your seats, I will wait a day to post the Dyno results. I thought it would be fun to provide a prize for the closest guess of peek HP on my best run. The tie breaker if needed will be closest to peek torque. I was thinking about a new set of TRW solid lifters (never used) collecting dust on a shelf for the small block guys or a ‘like new’ Comp Cams 288AR solid street roller cam (also gathering dust) for the big block guys (the winners choice). I will even provide shipping. A couple of clues that should help you with your guess are that the volumetric efficiency was 103%, the HP peak was at 6000 RPM and the torque peek was at 4700 RPM. Not a clue but another result I was very happy with was the brake specific fuel consumption which was as low as .374 and was less than .4 for a considerable RPM range.
I will post the dyno results Monday. What is your guess?
The Brodix Block
The J & E pistons with eagle ESP rods
The Dart PRO 1 335 CNC combustion chamber
The exhaust port
The intake port
Degreeing the cam
The rotating assembly
The widage tray and oil pump pick up
The comp cam rockers before stud girdle instalation
Ported intake manifold port
The best carb on the dyno (worth 15 HP over next best)
On the dyno
My overall objective was to create an engine that is about the weight of a small block, be very streetable and produce over 700 HP naturally aspirated on pump gas with stump pulling torque. There are many ways to get there and I am sure there are less costly as well as more costly ways than the route I took. This will probably be my last major build because I am looking forward to retiring in the not too distant future and my car budget will take a significant hit. As part of this project I also plan to install a roll cage and Tom’s 12 bolt rear end kit. But that will come later.
My good friend Dean (owner of Cresap Racing Engines in Cumberland Md.) did all the machine work / porting and helped me with the research on component selection. The components we went with are as follows:
Block: Brodix Aluminum 4.6” bore short deck (P/N 8B-2000A)
Crankshaft: Eagle 4.25 stroke 4340 Forged Steel, (P/N 445442526385)
Connecting Rods: Eagle 4340 H-beam ESP with ARP 2000 bolts (P/N CRS63853D2000)
Pistons: J&E forged flat top (131390)
Piston Rings: Total Seal with gapless top ring (P/N M9150-5)
Cylinder Heads: DART 335 CNC Pro-1 milled to 108 CC, valves un-shrouded in chamber to 4.6” bore
Camshaft: Custom P/N 4SF680/690, Solid. Roller, Lift (.660” I, .639” E), Duration @ .050” (256° I, 265° E), 4,7 and 2,3 swap fire (LS1 firing order), 108 Intake CL, 110 Lobe separation
Lifters: Comp Cams, Solid Roller (P/N 866-16) with positive oil feed to the needle bearings
Intake Valves: Ferrea 2.3” Stainless Steel, 11/32” Stem (P/N F1219P)
Exhaust Valves: Ferrea 1.9” Stainless Steel, 11/32” Stem 24 deg super flow (P/N F1261P)
Valve Springs: Comp Cams 953-16 outer with damper 4773-16 inner
Valve Spring Ret.: Comp Cams 10 deg Steel (P/N 741-16)
Stud Girdle assy: DART (P/N 64110001)
Push Rods: Cresap Racing Hi Tech 4340 Steel, Swedged Ends, 3/8” Dia. (P/N 7931-1 Int, P/N 7941-1 exh)
Rocker Arms: Comp Cams Pro Magnum, 1.7 Ratio, Roller (P/N 1320-16)
Intake Manifold: Edelbrock Victor Jr., Rectangular Port Single Plane (P/N 2902), Welded / fully ported and port matched to heads and milled for hood clearance
Carburetor: 950 CFM TACO
Timing Chain: Hex-A-Just true roller (P/N 9-3110A)
Timing Cover: Comp Cams Aluminum two piece (P/N 212)
Oil Pan: Milodon road race (P/N 31555)
Windage Tray: Milodon (P/N 32200)
Damper: ATI 7.25” internal balance (P/N 917060)
Water Pump: Edelbrock Victor short (P/N 8850)
Head Studs: ARP
Main Studs: ARP
Head Gasket: Cometic .040” (P/N COMC5334-040)
Intake Gasket: Cometic .060” (P/N IR122060KF)
Deck: .000
Compression Ratio: 10.2
Valve Lash: Intake .028”, Exhaust .028”
The CAM, heads and intake define the character of the engine and for best results they have to work together. The cam I ended up with, at first glance, would appear to be on the small side to provide the HP level I was shooting for. 565 inches can take a lot of cam and remain streetable. To finish this story and communicate how we came up with the Cam I need to tell you a few things about Dean (Cresap Racing Engines). He has been a close friend for many years and he turns his shop over to me. He builds mostly small block Chevys and Fords for circle track folks but also does a lot of rebuilds for classic car owners. His machine shop is fully equipped to do anything needed on an engine including a flow bench and a Super Flow 902 Dyno cell.
Dean is always experimenting with ways to stay a little bit ahead of the competition and found a custom cam grinder that supplies him with cams that typically make 20 to 40 more HP in his circle track engines than similar grinds from popular suppliers. I had specified a solid roller cam I wanted to go with but Dean talked me into giving his grinder a crack at it. The Cam listed above was the grinder’s recommendation. It is a solid roller street grind and swaps the 2 – 3 and 7 -4 firing order to yield the same firing order as an LS-X engines. This smoothes out the idle, puts less stress on the crank and by some accounts is good for some additional power. Dean is very protective of his cam source to maintain his competitive edge so he won’t even disclose the grinder to me so I can’t tell you who ground the cam.
I finally completed the assembly and we dynoed the engine a few days ago. It survived all 40 pulls and we found an additional 13 HP seating the rings and 30 HP with the tune. I included some photos of the build here but to keep you on the edge of your seats, I will wait a day to post the Dyno results. I thought it would be fun to provide a prize for the closest guess of peek HP on my best run. The tie breaker if needed will be closest to peek torque. I was thinking about a new set of TRW solid lifters (never used) collecting dust on a shelf for the small block guys or a ‘like new’ Comp Cams 288AR solid street roller cam (also gathering dust) for the big block guys (the winners choice). I will even provide shipping. A couple of clues that should help you with your guess are that the volumetric efficiency was 103%, the HP peak was at 6000 RPM and the torque peek was at 4700 RPM. Not a clue but another result I was very happy with was the brake specific fuel consumption which was as low as .374 and was less than .4 for a considerable RPM range.
I will post the dyno results Monday. What is your guess?
The Brodix Block
The J & E pistons with eagle ESP rods
The Dart PRO 1 335 CNC combustion chamber
The exhaust port
The intake port
Degreeing the cam
The rotating assembly
The widage tray and oil pump pick up
The comp cam rockers before stud girdle instalation
Ported intake manifold port
The best carb on the dyno (worth 15 HP over next best)
On the dyno
07-21-2007, 10:48 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
07-21-2007, 11:26 PM
#7
Team Owner
Why such small lift with those big heads?
How many CFM is the carb really?
At any rate it will be a monster
Because you have 130 ci on Dave and I.
Multiply 565 by a 1.3 TQ factor and you are going to have tire problems!
How many CFM is the carb really?
At any rate it will be a monster
Because you have 130 ci on Dave and I.Multiply 565 by a 1.3 TQ factor and you are going to have tire problems!
07-22-2007, 12:09 AM
#8
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I am going to start the install tomorrow and cant wait to see how it feels.
The carb started life as a 950 but was heavily worked by Taco. In the dyno tests it was flowing close to 1000 cfm with only a 1.3 in Hg pressure drop.
07-22-2007, 12:59 AM
#10
Le Mans Master
740 ft/lbs
785 hp
@ SAE standards
What'd I win??
Oh, and great breathing heads don't require as much cam to do the job...
785 hp
@ SAE standards
What'd I win??
Oh, and great breathing heads don't require as much cam to do the job...
big bump...
07-22-2007, 09:47 AM
#15
Team Owner
That is a true statement. I only expect my new springs to last about one year.
That thing is going to rumble
07-22-2007, 10:31 AM
#17
Team Owner
OH ya my guess. The 103% might make my 734 hp and 742 TQ all wrong
