darklordftt

hhmm, actually, i'll try that out (orange box) and see if the switch is able to work the interior lights again... if it ever has power again...

...Roger...

Six is that 6 wire conn. the same as earlier years with only 4 wires? If so what are the other 2 wires for? I see a green one.
On the 4 wire it was black-ground,purple-starter,2 reds-fusible links.

SIXFOOTER

3 power, 1 start, 2 aux fan wires

darklordftt

wtf... I go into the garage this morning and I immediately notice that the courtesy light under the hood is turned on. I put the key into the ignition and turn it to accessory, and the seatbelt and brake light come on (the E.B. is on becuse the car is jacked up, and I have it on), and the key buzzer is working again also(when the door is open). I turn the key to ignition and nothing... the light under the hood dims, and I notice the volt meter on the dash barley moves to register the battery, and when I hit it with my volt meter it reads 4volts... I think the light being on under the hood all night drained the battery. I have it charging now... when its done, I'll see if it cranks.

darklordftt

so the charge finishes... I go out and notice that I had also left the head light switch turned on last night (thats what drained the battery when evrything decided to turn itself back on last night.). I put the key into accessory and everything lights up on the dash and the radio turns on. I try and start the car... it crancked for a 10th of a second, and then everything blew out again... its dead again... wtf.

I'm going to the part store to go pick up a lamp tester, and I'm going to start all of the probes over again...

...Roger...

OH the fan leads I got it.But wait isnt there a black ground in that connector?That is the 403 isnt it and not the 406.Hmm better go study somemore.

EDIT-OK Six I think I have it.I dont have an 81 here like you but could it be 3 power, 1 start, 1 aux. fan, 1 ground (that pesky black lead at starter that grounds blower and wiper) ? I need to note this on my diagram.

...Roger...

What did you do to fix it? Intermitant problem-ohhh scary Probably that 6 wire connector Six was talking about since you didnt mess with the bulkhead conn. I talked about.Better pop that 6 wire appart and clean as he suggested to be safe.Lightly snug the bulkhead-it cant hurt.

darklordftt

I guess not turning the key to "start" for x amount of time caused something to be happy again and start working(overnight)

ok, i'll go clean the 6 wire connector.

I tested the alternator, the main battery feed and one of the terminal feeds (the red wire on the the little clip connection with 2 wires in it going to the alternator) have power. The key is not in. The fusible links still look good also.

darklordftt

I 6 wire connector looks fine on the inside, and the bulkhead connector is solid aso... theres no room to get anything in there to tighten it even if it was loose... without removing a ton of components.

Also, the 20Amp tail light fuse was blow again(from when I tried to start it this morning)... that must be where the short is happening... I'm going to start following the circuit in the service manual. I still don't understand why the electrics would just start working agin this morning, until I tried to start it.

Tim81

By chance have you had the Battery checked. Its sounds to me like the battery itself could be shorted internally.

darklordftt

I'll try swapping in a new one and see what happens

SIXFOOTER

Shorted batteries make fires. It could have a cell opening up. Stick a test light on it and see. You have an intermittent conection somewhere.
So you have no lights or indication of power anywhere?

darklordftt

Ok... I pulled the leads from the battery and reconnected them... it reset the system, and I have power to everything once again. I didn't try and start it again (I will tomorrow). I went through the fuse panel following the service manual, and all fuses have power in the correct key position.

So putting the key in the "start" positon blows the 20amp tail light fuse, and locks the system up(the ECM must be doing something with the electrical power)... could the alternator be shot, and its sending a power surge through the system when I try and start the engine? Everything works fine (everything is on and running) with the key in the "run" position.


I forgot, there is one fuse issue... the 7.4amp "inst" fuse(if you're looking at the panel, its the upper most one on the left.) never has any power. But there are so many wires being spaded into the panel, it might have been re-reouted to one of the extra ignition slots... I should take a pic of it and post it as "what not to do to a fuse panel"... I had nothing to do with it, I'm just dealing with it.

...Roger...

As far as the 7.5 amp inst fuse its fed "only" when the headlight switch is on -both positions
As far as the 20 Tail fuse its hot all the time.Should not be effected by start position.With wires run to places that are not stock pretty much renders the GM wiring diagram useless for those of us trying to help you.
One thing I can say is the 20 Tail feeds the headlight switch first before it goes anywhere else-So unplug the large conn. on headlight switch and see if that stops the 20 from blowing if it does then the short is beyond the HS if that doesnt stop it from blowing then its probably at the fuse panel.You need to use your diagram at put everything back where it should be.Gooood Luck

SIXFOOTER

OK, the ECM or CCC is its correct name has nothing whatever to do with the power on this car, so you can forget that.
Here is the tail light circuit


The brown wire ties the tail light circuit to the brake light circuit in the middle of the page here


Here are the Power Dist drawings for the Ign Sw and light sw



I don't know of anything to be "Reset" by disconnecting the battery, If there are wires "spaded" into the fuse panel, and your haveing electrical problems and a fuse is blowing, thats the place to start, unplug them and see what happens. Make notes where they went and figure out what is connected to them.
This should be a pretty simple thing to fix.
Did you get a test light? I would really be interested to know if your loosing power at a couple places that you can easily check without moving anything around.

With the thing Dead in your opinion, put the test light on the back of the alternator, on the red wire on the side of the alternator and on the firewall side of the 6 wire connector by the passenger head, all 3 red wires.

SIXFOOTER

Roger, if you need these I can send them to you or copy them from here

darklordftt

I bought the test light yesterday, and tested the alternator, and the 6 six wire connector with it while the system was "dead" so to say, it lit up on all the spots. Is there anyplace else you think I should check with it.

I'm going to go out there now and pull the 20Amp Tail light fuse(the one that keeps blowing), and try and start it and see if it dies with the fuse pulled or not.

darklordftt

With the tail light fuse removed from the fuse panel, the car starts!
I was always replacing the fuse, and trying to start the car again(The 2 times I was able to, until I figured out the pulling the battery and reconnecting it gave me power again)... thus shorting out, and causing the "dead" state to happen. Now, why a short in the tail light circuit would cause a black out across the entire electrical system is beyond me. Though from the look of my fuse panel, its easy to tell that this car has had some electircal issues.

Behold, what not to do to your fuse panel(I did not do this to it):


So now its time to track down the short. Does anyone know the physical route the electical wires take from the fuse panel to the tail lamps? I can see the wires and the main ground under the rear of the car... they lead up along the side of the gas tank heading for the battery compartment area. And from the diagrams, its fed from the light switch... but where does it go inbetween? Does anyone know if it happens to run behind the radio, then down under he shifter console?

Thanks for all your help guys!

...Roger...

Thanks Six I have it but the 6 wire was not to clear.I have made other notes in this 81 manual.This 81 doesnt always tell the truth.

SIXFOOTER

The wire bundle goes in the back corner on the drivers side and then along the door sill and up into the dash