rick1500

I just installed a new pilot bushing along with a new clutch disc and pressure plate. I had the alignment tool fit in nicely and a light coat of oil inside the bushing. However, the transmission did not want to go on completely without tapping on the output shaft with a hammer. It's on now, but I think it's dragging a little. With the trans in gear and the clutch disengaged, I can turn the output shaft (so the input is spinning in the bushing), but if I turn the engine the trans output turns too (with a little resistance, it stops though). Is this normal, or should I take the trans back off and try to sand the ID of the bushing? Or, just get another bushing?

langg

I had a problem with trans alignment during install and ended up raising a burr on the pilot bushing. It made the input shaft drag like you are describing. The result was that I could not get it in gear with the engine running and the car stopped. It shifted more or less OK when the car was moving.

I ended up changing the pilot bushing to fix the problem. I tried reaming the pilot bushing but it didn't seem to help.

rick1500

I was afraid of just that--not being able to get it into first gear. I think I'll be pulling it tomorrow in that case. Fortunately, I'm doing a frame off and don't have the body to get in the way. Thanks for the response

sly vette

As I understand it...there are 2 different materials they make pilot brngs. out of.
The first is brass, of which we are all familiar with, and lube may be used.
The second is a brass steel alloy, and this one should never have lube applied to it. Something about it being "Pre-Lubed". If you do apply lube to this pilot brng. I am told that it will seize to the shaft.
Simply put...I was told that if a magnet sticks to it NO LUBE.
Someone else may be able to expound on this topic.

sxr6

Apparently, a problem guys are having is the new bearings are slightly larger & while the pilot slides on the tranny input shaft fine before installation after it's driven into the flywheel the bearing tightens up & is now to small for the imput! Some grinding is in order to make a good fit.

...Roger...

Measure the depth of the bore in the crank where the bushing goes in.Then measure the length of the bushing.If you drive it in TOO far it will crush or taper the ID of the bushing.I usually leave the bushing out of the crank by about 1/8".

68 NJConv 454

I went with a roller bearing pilot bushing from summit.
I heard they are much more efficient and less wear.
How come noone suggested them? anything I should know before I install it tonight?
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku

sly vette

I do remember some on here had reservations about the roller brng.type
You may want to do a search first.
Good Luck,
Mark

rick1500

This is what I read from another post on pilot bearings and Muncies:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1765388

Solid LT1

Roller pilot bearing BAAD! they blow up! Bronze pilot bushing GOOD! they go 100K miles.

GTR1999

I agree, the roller bearings will require you to dial in the bellhousing much tighter then the bronze bushings. There are some,maybe a lot, of the bronze bushings with a metal content now. I alway take a magnet to NAPA and check them. If it sticks I don't use them at all. I would replace it now and be done with it. Check your input shaft when you have the tranny pushed back or out.
Good luck

rihwoods

Good topic....here is a roller bearing I pulled from my 69 (Muncie 4 speed)....it let go at 20,000 miles....



But...I had some clutch chatter issues with my 11" non-slip clutch that the PO mis-matched with pressure plate....I installed a new clutch assembly,and a new roller bearing...So we shall see...
It's been in there several months now..so far,so good...

Rich

gkull

Roller pilot bearing is just a better mouse trap. Keisler wants you to use them with all their kits. I have used three sets of roller pilots without a problem other than my last crank rear hole was larger and the rollers i tried were all loose. I used a product like super glue to take up the space.

The big thing is dialing in the bell housing to get the shaft centered in the pilot

68 NJConv 454

Humm good to know.
I had placed a small order with summit thismorning and just got them to throw in a bronze pilot bushing for $6.39 RAM-BU656
I'll put a magnet to it when I get it. One of them is going back and if the new one isn't pure bronze then that'll go back too.

Everyone I talked to locally said the roller bushing was the way to go but I guess they're knowledge and experience wasn't with the muncie.

Thanks guys

Hotrod406

I am using a roller bearing too. My dad and two uncles also use them and I've never heard of one going bad. That's anectotal of course, but I'm going to keep using them.

68 NJConv 454

Well seeing how Rick has already installed his pilot bushing and my engine currently has a roller pilot bearing in it...HOW DO YOU REMOVE THE SOB??? I tried a lifter puller, screwdriver and even a slide hammer with one claw and it didn't budge. Squirted some penetrating oil behind it and it still didn't want to come out. Is there a tool out there to remove these? can I rent it at an autozone or parts place? Regardless its gotta come out now. what's this things weakness?

Here's a good article on installing the pilot bushings and removing them using the thick grease method.
But will this be effective for a roller bearing??
Anyone know of a tool that exists or a method to remove the roller pilot bearing?
http://www.custompistols.com/cars/ar...ot_bushing.htm

kg4ajk

I only use bushings.When a pilot roller bearing goes bad it chews the crap out of trans input shaft. Now your repair bill goes way up.

rihwoods

I cut mine out because the bearing race was hosed up....

rick1500

I'm 2 for 2 using the stick-and-grease method...I just can't get over how well it's worked for me. You've probably compromised the bearing already at this point using the pullers, etc., so I'd at least give the grease method a try.

rj8806

I am by no means an expert on this topic but I'll throw my .02 in anyways.
rick1500 said it the best so far(actually quoting Lars) "was that the tolerances on older transmissions like the Muncie aren't very tight and the pilot will see a lot more perpindicular forces. A roller bearing has a higher failure rate in this scenario and when it fails...."

You guys that are trying the needle roller bearing with a muncie and not dialing in the bell, is a recipe for failure everytime. The needle roller does not have any "give" in it at all like bronze bushing. By not dialing in the bell, you are not ensuring that the input is perpindicular to the crank. When the input goes into the crank at an angle using the bronze bushing, the bushing has enough "give" that it won't hurt anything. The needle roller, having no "give" will fail everytime in this situation. If you take the time to dial in the bell(using a Muncie) and use a needle roller, you will be fine and I don't believe you will experience bearing failure. That is going to be dependant on how much "slop" there is on your input though. If you grab the input of a Muncie, you can move it up, down, in, out and sideways some. I'm not talking a great deal here but it is still going to move. On a TKO, you will not be able to do that at all, making bellhousing alignment CRITICAL. When it is dialed in properly(TKO or Muncie) you know that you are not putting undue stress on the pilot bushing/bearing(and input) because the input is perpindicular to the crank. I hope this makes sense and is clear to understand. It is early in the morning and I haven't had my morning quota of mountain dew yet.


Richard
Tech Support
Keisler Engineering