Piston and Rod Combos
10-04-2008, 12:34 PM
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Piston and Rod Combos
Lets say that you have a 525hp 7000rpm 355 small block. What is the best deal in relation to piston and rod combos?
The problem is I need around a 3cc dome. So piston choice is limited.
The problem is I need around a 3cc dome. So piston choice is limited.
10-04-2008, 12:45 PM
#2
Race Director
Why a 3cc dome ? Not much difference in CR with a flat top and there are a million of those out there.
I would go with a lightweight steel I beam rod such as Carrillo or Eagle has a "ESP" Featherlight H-Beam Rods both are at Flatlander racing for good prices especially the Carillos. Hope this isn't for a street car
I would go with a lightweight steel I beam rod such as Carrillo or Eagle has a "ESP" Featherlight H-Beam Rods both are at Flatlander racing for good prices especially the Carillos. Hope this isn't for a street car
10-04-2008, 12:51 PM
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St. Jude Donor '05
usea flatty if you can, lots of choices and less weight at the top of the piston. Easy to get 525 with a 355.
10-04-2008, 01:01 PM
#4
Le Mans Master
I think you mean if you WANT this combo 
Need a lot more information on bore, stroke, head, etc. To say you need a certain dome doesn't tell much without the rest of the configuration...
Need a lot more information on bore, stroke, head, etc. To say you need a certain dome doesn't tell much without the rest of the configuration...
10-04-2008, 03:52 PM
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A flat top piston yields 10.38:1 compression. I am looking for 11.5:1
with a 64cc head, and 4.06 bore head gasket a 3.3cc dome will yield an appropriate 11.51:1 compression ratio.
I have found a couple of pistons that meet my criteria, The Ross Ludicrous lightness low dome piston at 2.7cc, and a variety of KB silvolite pistons. The Ross piston is much lighter than the KB but they are also twice as much.
The KB piston setup is 31g heavier than the ross ludicrous lightness setup.
Lightweight H-Beam Rods save 90g
with a 64cc head, and 4.06 bore head gasket a 3.3cc dome will yield an appropriate 11.51:1 compression ratio.
I have found a couple of pistons that meet my criteria, The Ross Ludicrous lightness low dome piston at 2.7cc, and a variety of KB silvolite pistons. The Ross piston is much lighter than the KB but they are also twice as much.
The KB piston setup is 31g heavier than the ross ludicrous lightness setup.
Lightweight H-Beam Rods save 90g
Last edited by Guru_4_hire; 10-04-2008 at 04:19 PM.
10-04-2008, 04:00 PM
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Why a 3cc dome ? Not much difference in CR with a flat top and there are a million of those out there.
I would go with a lightweight steel I beam rod such as Carrillo or Eagle has a "ESP" Featherlight H-Beam Rods both are at Flatlander racing for good prices especially the Carillos. Hope this isn't for a street car
I would go with a lightweight steel I beam rod such as Carrillo or Eagle has a "ESP" Featherlight H-Beam Rods both are at Flatlander racing for good prices especially the Carillos. Hope this isn't for a street car
Of course its for a street car.
10-04-2008, 04:25 PM
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Here is what I am working on at the moment
1053 forged circle track crankshaft
Scat 6" rods (Carrillo I beams also a possibility)
KB dome 3.25cc dome pistons (11.5:1 SCR, 8:1 DCR)
GM 12370847 Hyd Roller Camshaft (crane 234/242 camshaft)
OE Hyd Rollers
Mcleod aluminum flywheel
Fluidampr
Pete Jackson Gear Drive
Titan Oil Pump
Custom Oil Pan
1996 4 bolt main truck block for OE Hyd Rollers
Hooker Sidepipes
750 mighty demon with annular boosters and mechanical secondaries
Dart Dual Plane
Dart Pro 1 200cc platinum heads with straight plugs and 64cc chambers
Mallory magnetic breakerless corvette distributer with tach drive
Mallory hyfire 6 ignition box
Mallory Coil
Mallory Fuel log with pressure regulator
Stewart stage 3 water pump
1.5.1 ratio roller rockers
1053 forged circle track crankshaft
Scat 6" rods (Carrillo I beams also a possibility)
KB dome 3.25cc dome pistons (11.5:1 SCR, 8:1 DCR)
GM 12370847 Hyd Roller Camshaft (crane 234/242 camshaft)
OE Hyd Rollers
Mcleod aluminum flywheel
Fluidampr
Pete Jackson Gear Drive
Titan Oil Pump
Custom Oil Pan
1996 4 bolt main truck block for OE Hyd Rollers
Hooker Sidepipes
750 mighty demon with annular boosters and mechanical secondaries
Dart Dual Plane
Dart Pro 1 200cc platinum heads with straight plugs and 64cc chambers
Mallory magnetic breakerless corvette distributer with tach drive
Mallory hyfire 6 ignition box
Mallory Coil
Mallory Fuel log with pressure regulator
Stewart stage 3 water pump
1.5.1 ratio roller rockers
10-04-2008, 05:29 PM
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10-04-2008, 05:31 PM
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Based upon the crane timing card and the calculator it is not. I am using the Patrick Kelley Calculator application.
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=brows...tType=camshaft
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=brows...tType=camshaft
Last edited by Guru_4_hire; 10-04-2008 at 05:49 PM.
10-04-2008, 05:47 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
I guess I didn't want to be the first one to say it. The flow numbers for the heads are excellent, but I don't see that power level either. Seems like some real mismatches in the overall configuration IMHO.
Who's doing the engine design?
Who's doing the engine design?
10-04-2008, 05:57 PM
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355ci = 5817cc --> 727 cc/clyinder (displaced volume)
Lets use 64 cc heads and flat tops... To get a CR of 10.38 (what you stated) we need an additional 13.5cc of head gasket. Now using the same head gasket and 3.3 cc domed pistons, you get 10.8 for the CR.
So it's about 1/2 a point for the 3.3cc dome... not 1.2.
10-04-2008, 05:59 PM
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Flat tops are -5cc at least.
There is an 8cc difference between a 3cc dome and a flatop piston.
There is an 8cc difference between a 3cc dome and a flatop piston.
10-04-2008, 06:14 PM
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10-04-2008, 06:20 PM
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10-04-2008, 06:22 PM
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The -5cc is from the valve reliefs.
Last edited by Guru_4_hire; 10-04-2008 at 06:29 PM.
10-04-2008, 06:50 PM
#19
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I am skeptical of anyone selling anything ( heads and cam ) and then using their own dyno, very easy to make a happy dyno. His heads only flow 270cfm and if they are getting 440RWHP out of a 350ci I would be very surprised.
Your combination above will make about 300-325RWHP maybe as high as 350RWHP but I doubt it.
Don't get me wrong here, I do not want to offend. The motor you want to build is a nice motor, take a close look at making sure you have the parts matched correctly
Your combination above will make about 300-325RWHP maybe as high as 350RWHP but I doubt it.
Don't get me wrong here, I do not want to offend. The motor you want to build is a nice motor, take a close look at making sure you have the parts matched correctly
Last edited by MotorHead; 10-04-2008 at 07:15 PM.
10-04-2008, 07:01 PM
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I am skeptical of anyone selling anything ( heads and cam ) and then using their own dyno, very easy to make a happy dyno. His heads only flow 270cfm and if they are getting 440RWHP out of a 350ci I would be very surprised.
Your combination above will make about 300-325RWHP maybe as high as 350RWHP but I doubt it.
Don't get me wrong here, I do not want to offend. The motor you want to build is a nice motor, take a close look at making sure you have the parts matched correctly
Your combination above will make about 300-325RWHP maybe as high as 350RWHP but I doubt it.
Don't get me wrong here, I do not want to offend. The motor you want to build is a nice motor, take a close look at making sure you have the parts matched correctly
Piston/head fitment
I dont like my intake choice, but the number of intakes that will fit under my hood and meets my other requirements is pretty slim.
Based upon the head port area the dart 200s are a good choice. The camshaft matches the heads on RPM range. The compression is within the range the cam maker recommends, and it fits the typical DCR "rule of thumb."
I would really like a low profile single plane with rear cooling ports, but that isnt really available. If I am going to have compression at the high end of what is recommended, I had better take cooling seriously. So pretty much following all of the recommendations on the stewart components website for effective engine cooling. So I am left with the edelbrock RPM airgap or the dart intake. I expect the dart intake will work well with the dart heads.
Last edited by Guru_4_hire; 10-04-2008 at 07:14 PM.