Billysvette

Guys from what they say is that the grease fitting is at the bearing race aera and the grease goes directly into the bearing,both bearings.that makes things interesting.gtr1999 are those pics of spindle peoples product? i took for granted that they were.would it change you guys minds if the grease fitting was right at the bearing race,and the grease goes right into the bearing.i dont mean to beat a dead horse but the horse isnt dead yet,hahaha.still researching.i also have asked qestions to the spindle people company,interested in what they have to say. Bill

Tom454

What "they say" may not be "what is". In order for the grease to be forced into the rollers from the inside, without the possibility of it filling the cavity first, the zerk grease passage hole would -also- have to go through the actual bearing seat that is pressed into the spindle support, without having any opening into the cavity itself. That is not what the pic shows. 1) The passage would have to come into the spindle support and make a right angle turn 2) the bearing seat would also have to be drilled at the same spot to allow the grease to pass to the rollers. Drilling a hole in the bearing seat would be a no-no. For sure, they would not do that. You have to do your own thinking here and not rely on what they claim. I was in business... owned my own machine shop and auto repair shop, and I replaced a lot of these bearings. I know the design of this setup better than the back of my hand. FYI- Gary and I are friends from way back... we compare notes offline. We both have all of these parts laying around in our shops, and we can pick them up and look at them closely at any time. This is probably what you need to do to get a feel for this.

Also... that pic shows the spindle support WITHOUT the bearing seat pressed in place. This can also add to the confusion. But with the seat pressed into the support, you would not be able to see the drilled hole, and you would see that the grease cannot get directly to the bearing without first entering and filling the cavity. It can't go "through" the seat.

Just to make sure I'm not selling snake oil here, I'll grab a spindle support tonight and compare to to the pics to see if I'm missing something.

Red 71

Tom454, I agree with your explanation, that is if the pictures presented earlier were in fact of a spindle from The Spindle People. But you know what they say about assuming things.

When I read their explanation of how their setup worked I did not get the impression that it was the same spindle as pictured. Being a curious sort I e-mailed them and they sent me a schematic from their patent application which should explain it once and for all. The grease goes right thru the race so if someone pumped in enough to blow a seal it would mean they should not be using hand tools!

Tom454

Good detective work!

According to that drawing, 27,28,29 are the inner race, rollers (and cage), and the outer race in that order. The zerk fitting hole appears to be drilled through the outer race in order to get the grease to the bearing. I would pass on having a hole drilled through my outer races, for various reasons. Here are three 1) It provides a "rough spot" for the rollers to traverse. No matter how smooth they drill, there is still going to be some disruption in the surface.. questioning the longevity of the rollers & seat 2) every time a new race is installed, it has to be drilled... through the zerk threaded hole. This is "iffy" at best. 3) if the little ball in the zerk fails (and they do fail) this will give the grease a path to the outside... drying up the bearing, letting moisture in. I admit 3 is not very likely. But 2 is a definite, and 1 is unacceptable to me.

From my post above...
"Drilling a hole in the bearing seat would be a no-no. For sure, they would not do that. "

The question still remains... as you pointed out.. not to assume... did they actually implement the product exactly as the applied patent depicts? I have found this not to be the case in some instances.

I would have to get one of their finished products in my hands to see for sure.

I did look at a spindle support last night... the implementation in the photo's way above... would definitely not work.

I know that the engineers are not gods, and they make mistakes. But in this case, I think GM would have provided an easier way to grease these things if it were possible given the design limitations. They probably had the same debate we're having now.

GTR1999

To be clear, the picture I posted showing the grease fitting hole is one I have no idea who installed. As I stated in that post I have never dealt with the spindle people. Also I said the only way to lube the installed bearings would be a hole in the hardened race, which the cut away print clearly shows. So the question is how much grease is installed when adding and how do you measure it? It's not how I would do them, but if the hole is properly machined and radiused it probably won't affect the race, roller contact unknown.I may call my contact at Timken to get his opinin. Me, I'll stay with my tried and proven assembly.
Since this has been up here I wonder if anyone from the SP have seen it and would respond.

Mike Ward

They figured out that the bearings consistantly last (at least) 40K miles with no servicing required, and with this large an interval an appropriate mtce. task would be to remove, inspect and regrease/replace as required. Not just blindly pump in X amount of grease and cut them loose for another 40K miles.

But I do admire the OP's tenacity in driving this one to ground.

Tom454

Here is my take on drilling holes in the bearing race...

Buy trade, I was an engine builder. My machine shop handled all phases of engine rebuilding. Part of that process was champhering the oil holes in a freshly polished or ground crank. Without the champhering, the crank woud have knife edges at the rim of the crank oil hole which would tear up the bearing instantly when the engine was started... or even while rotating the crank in the bearings before engine assembly. So... failure to champher the oil holes was a death sentance to the engine.

But.. lets assume the drilled holes in the spindle support outer bearing race are champhered.

Over the years, I have disassembled a LOT of engines. One of the things I look for immediately is scoring on the cank. 9 out of 10 times if there is crank and bearing scoring, it's at or near the location of the champhered oil hole. Random metal particles (or dirt) tend to collect and wedge between the champher on the crank and the bearing, where they get drawn in between the crank and bearing and get dragged around the crank... thus scoring the crank. In severe cases, the crank was trashed.

My opinion on the drilled (and hopefully champhered) outer spindle bearing seat is based on this "real world experience". IMOP... the holes provide yet another possible point of failure for the design in general. So just based on that, personally, I would not promote the use of spindle supports with holes drilled in the bearing seats.

But I generally don't like chocolate either.

Billysvette

I personally think this is a great thread,im learning and alot others too,getting different ideas on something and try to figure out if this product is good or not and benefit everybody,so far we cant say this product isnt any good,but to the contrary it seems it might be a good product,i dont know for sure,seems we might be getting close though.What keeps coming back to my mine is that they have been in business for a long time now and if the product wasnt any good it would tank,i dont know its just what i think.The longer we study on this the evidence seems to favor the spindle people product.Please nobody get upset about anybody questioning each others ideas,its just a fact finding mission for me and i hope it helps ALL of us

Billysvette

Mike i am persistant,i want to know the truth,I hate politics,and untruths,either way if the product is bad and i find out about it ,"I WILL" tell everybody about it,i dont want anybody to get screwed over by this company or anyother for that matter,its just the way i am.If i can help somebody out doing this ,that would be great ,i cant stand being ripped off.

Tom454

The only way we'll know is if we tear down a set after they've logged a bunch of miles. Seeing the wear patterns on the seat and rollers will give us the answer.

I have a set of "slip fit" spindles on my 66... general opinion is it's a disaster waiting to happen. I actually tend to agree. But... I installed them in 1976... they're still fine.

Red 71

I have never had one of these spindle setups apart but I just started thinking about something. If you remember about a year ago Paul67 started a thread about running out of grease in steering gears. I found that mine (71) was about dry. Seems GM was using a paraffin based lube and the liquid portion would evaporate in time. For those of you that have experience with these axle, is this the same type of lube and therefore explains why the initial lube tends to dry up.

Billysvette

I also have the slip fit spindles,done by a local shop and i didnt know any better,but they have been good for many years now,maybe im lucky.But now i want all new for my car along with offset arms.

Red 71

You know you hear all these horror stories about "slip fits" but you very rarely see actual proof that they were a problem. This old "my cousins third wife's ex brother-in-law* said he had a friend that knew someone that lost a axle. That kind of stuff. If you have the "slip fits" you are gonna service them often enough that you will not have problems.

Do not mean to offend anyone but I do not immediately buy into everything I read on any forum. If I am going to believe someone I usually have already developed a opinion of that person. We have all rolled our eyes at things we have read.

toobroketoretire

The solution is to fill the hubs about 75% full of any #2 chassis lube then it never needs grease again for the life of the bearings (over 200,000 miles usually).

Tom454

I did this with the first set I ever repaired... around 1974. When the grease heated up after several miles of driving... it expanded and had no where to go. The grease oozed out past the outer seal and all over the new parking brake shoes. Since then, I never fill them all the way.

DUB

No need in filling it up full. I lightly coat the inside and that's all. So the inner bearing housing does not rust. The rear bearing require servicing....no way around it. The housing does not spin...so filling it up will only do so much. I have dealt with many that we filled up like crazy...and there are areas where the grease was just there...hanging and plastered to where it was put...and will not ever get to where the person intended it to get to.

DUB