ZZ71S

Have you thought about one of the ZZ short blocks and a cam,heads and intake
I have a zz4 and this is what I wish I would have done.
Read the warranty for any GM crate engine very very closely

midyearvette

550 torque @3250......red line@6200.....any questions??.....BBZZ 502.....BB ZZ 454 500 torque....490 hp.....red line 6200........

Jughead

Size matters.

mtcraigco

Good points and yes, I am looking for gobs or torque, HP is secondary, but important.

I'm not looking to run around town at 8k just to hear a SB scream. I have a 5.7 Hemi that will pull well past 7500 but the bottom end won't take it so she limited at 6250.

The definition of "real performance cars" varies with the user, this vette will never see a road course and will be used mainly for handing out but whoopins on the street and occasionaly grudge night at the drag strip. Freight train pull is what I'm after and the sooner it comes in the better. I don't care much if it does not pull past 6k as that's tight enough for me anyway.

Good numbers but the TQ peak is to high for what I'm after.

I thought of that but it seems to be more hassle than it's worth as far as dropping it in. I could be totally wrong though as I did not explore the LSx options much at all.

However I do want that BB old school look when I pop the hood.

Yes I have, and still may go that route.

And there may just be the winner, I did some research and it seems the ZZ454 with a ZZ502 (or other similar) cam makes very very good power with good manners to boot. Seems the ZZ454 is very underrated and ALOT of bang for the buck.

$6k + a cam and she's just this side if a ZZ502 and I leave 2k in my pocket for that billet pulley set up from March or Billet specialties.

Gonna be hard not to go that route.

427Hotrod

If you're going to all the trouble to go BB...might as well get a good one.

Find a builder doing 540-555's....get good heads on it..and cut back on the cam. The cam is what will give you all the manners....and an extra 40+ cubes is HUGE! They look the same on the outside and you end up with a better block and internals.

The ZZ502's are anemic to me unless you add a good cam etc. I sold my old Camaro to a buddy less my iron headed oval port 427 with a nice little flat tappet cam. The 427 would walk all over the 502 all day long. It's dead by 5200 rpm.

Once you move into the larger motors, you will soon forget all that *it's all about TQ..and low rpm TQ*. You will quickly find that TQ at higher RPM is a LOT easier to control...a LOT more fun...and a LOT faster!! 6500-7000 rpm is nothing for these type motors with a decent valvetrain in them. There's a lot of performance in that extra 1000 rpm!

JIM

SteveG75

ZZ502 but it needs a bigger cam. GM's cams are all on the small side.

mtcraigco

I am seeing a consistent mantra of the ZZ motors needing bigger cams, with the factory cam in a ZZ502, what is the idle like? A little chop is fine but it needs to pull enough vacuum to run the brakes ect.

Maybe I am overestimating how radical the idle is in these things??

SteveG75

The ZZ502 cam specs out a 224/234@.050" lift. That is a street cam for a 350/383. A 502 will calm that cam right down. There is a reason that the ZZ502 has a 5800 rpm and peaks at 5200 rpm, not enough cam.

Take a look at this 630hp 502 build and see how mild that cam is as well.
http://www.gilbertracingparts.com/Ch...timate_502.cfm


More engine ideas here:
http://www.gilbertracingparts.com/start.cfm

mtcraigco

I've thought about calling Gilbert and asking them some questions, maybe I should.

midyearvette

if you want something streetable on todays fuels the gm cams are fine, there are always those who disagree and are cam gurus however the low end and mid range of these engines is incredible and as far as high revs, there are a few tricks that really wake them up......nice to 6200 rpm then flat at 6400.....im sure more cam would help but then there are always more arguments for more power......it all depends what you are looking for and you simply cannot have it all......but the argument of bb or small block has no justification if you want reliability, future hp potential and brute force......anybody wanna talk about a blower on a stock 454 ho??.......very streetable.....btw my 454 ho is now 8 years old with 6000 miles on it and no problems what so ever....in 2nd gear from a 15 mph roll it lights the tires and fishtails.....low gear, fuggitabout it!!....all this for $4650.00 in 2001...........as far as vacuum.......17-19 hg at idle......

mtcraigco

And that sums it up pretty good for me, if I can't keep a $6k 490hp 454 hooked up, why spend $12k just to not be able to hook up a 625HP 550 or whatever.

It seems the ZZ454 will do everything I want and have plenty of room for more HP later on, for $2k or more less than the next BB option.

I DO want the aluminum heads and it seems that getting them on the ZZ454 is about 1k less than getting a short block and buying a pair so it's a good value from that standpoint to.

The ZZ454 just seems like the way I'll go, drop a 502 cam in it for a bit more breathing and maybe a different intake and call it good.

Thanks to 3JsVette for the suggestion!

3JsVette

You're welcome!
Good luck with what ever you decide.

mtcraigco

Thanks, I am still looking at a 502 short block with a top end kit, it'd put the 502 around 600HP for the same money, (a bit less actually) as the ZZ502 Turnkey Crate motor.

BUT that takes me back to getting the HP to the street.


Well at least I have solidly decided to go Big Block, that's progress!

Big454

zz502 with top end kit

My nr

605 hp @ 5500rpm
600trq @ 4700rpm

AnTra

Why not the bargainmotor zz454 with nearly 500 brake hp ?. (Proven underrated engine)

mtcraigco

It is down to one of these two short blocks with a top end kit

ZZ502 with Edelbrock performer TE kit

600/600 at $7600.00

ZZ454 with same top end kit (for it)

540/?? (I'd assume at least 540 ft lbs) at $6500

$1100.00 diff in price and 75 less HP/TQ (give or take)

I wish it was $2k diff, then it'd be easier to decide but I am leaning towards the 454 and putting the rest towards a fuel injection set up for it.

Big454, how does that 600/600 stay hooked up? Can you actually use the power or is it just too much to get to the ground?

Same question to anybody else in the 500/500 + range.

I need a beer to help me think!

OzzyTom

Well I've found that on the street, a power to weight ratio of 300HP/ton is where the grins start irrespective of what vehicle it is.

More than that power level, and you need to learn respect.
You need to learn that the pedal on the right has more than two positions!

600 horses can only be tamed by judicious use of your right foot.

Isn't it better to know there's more power than you really need.