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Old 02-08-2011, 03:48 AM   #1
'Bochawa72
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Default Anyone have a Keisler RS 500/600?

I'm looking for a new manual trans. I'm leaning towards the Keisler RS 600 right now but can't really seem to find much on it here on the forum. Is anyone running one? I understand they are fairly new but the guy on the phone made it sound like they are flying off the shelf.

I was told it's a better trans than the TKO series but the significantly cheaper price makes me raise an eyebrow(about $800 less on my quote). Can someone explain the differences to me? Anyone have a RS love it or hate it? Thanks guys!
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Old 02-08-2011, 03:53 AM   #2
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I would love to hear opinions too!
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Old 02-08-2011, 08:21 AM   #3
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I can't say amything about the RS, but I have a TKO-600 in my '71 and I LOVE IT!!! The install was clean, with no mods except the removable crossmember. I am not sure how it could be better...but if it is, it's gonna be GREAT!!!
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Old 02-08-2011, 08:33 AM   #4
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I would go to their website:
http://www.keislerauto.com/

The site indicates that the new RS400/500/600 require no cutting of the tunnel or the crossmember. I sent an email last week to confrim, but have not had a reply.

I have a quote on the RS500 for 2.5K which includes required pilot bearing, drive shaft with tranmisison yoke and transmission.

That is $500 or more less than the TKO or the Richmond.
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Old 02-08-2011, 07:08 PM   #5
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Hi Folks,

The RS400/500/600 models are in production now, and will be shipping in the coming weeks. The RS are NO CUTTING in ALL CORVETTE.

The predecessor to the RS is T45RS, which we have been selling since 2007. In a C3 4-speed equipped car, the T45RS required extending the shifter hole to the right about an inch. This is NOT required for the RS. The RS uses our new PerfectFit design parts for a not cutting, perfect fit, correct driveline angle install.

There are people running the T45RS600 on Pro-Touring.com. Go on there and look at the threads on it, and you can ask them questions.

Alan Covin, the editor of the former Corvette Fever magazine, did a full feature on the T45RS500 in 2009. And you can see his driving video at www.keislertv.com. He was very impressed with the transmission, and liked the shift quality much better than the TKO.
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Old 02-09-2011, 04:50 AM   #6
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Cory70- I found this over at the pro-touring forum. I hope the Keisler guys don't mind but I'm just cutting and pasting a response they posted over there. This was the info I was looking for, a bit more detailed than on their web-site. I took it out of the thread linked below. Take a look as a couple guys review the RS in it as well. I really think that this is the way I'm gonna go. The RS600 seems like a pretty good match for what I'm looking for. Not to mention a great price quote. Much friendlier than the TKO on the wallet.

I'd still like to know if anyone here is running one and what they think. Anyway,here's the info I found.

http://www.pro-touring.com/showthrea...-Keisler-RS600

Originally posted by Keisler:
Hi Guys and Gals,

We will be launching the new Keisler RS PerfectFit 5-Speed officially next month. We debuted it at the Chicago Muscle Car and Corvette Nationals last weekend. Here is some info about it, compared with our previous offerings. As this product will prove itself in the months and years to come, it is a major advancement in the market, and is Keisler's new flagship product.

DESCRIPTION ... KEISLER Rallye Sport "RS" 5-speed
The evolution of the Keisler T45RS line started back in 2007, the Keisler RS 5-Speed product line takes our overdrive transmission systems to a higher level of quality, value and performance.

1) A Perfect Fit
Thanks to an all new feature rich extension housing case and a heavily revised shift system, we are able to package the RS as a PerfectFit for a no cutting, no compromise fit in most popular muscle cars and classic sports cars. PerfectFit with the RS is standard - not an upcharge (like our tremec tko perfectfit kits). More than 15 shifter handle mounting positions exist for all popular domestic cars, sport trucks and kit cars.
> GM A-body NO CUTTING - For the first time ever, owners of Chevelle, GTO, Skylark, 442 will be able to install a 5-Speed with NO CUTTING to the tunnel ... a major improvement over our tko perfectfit kits. The RS provides uncompromised driveline angle and assures your engine won't be tilted back with exhaust headers pointing down to the ground, and you won't have driveshaft vibration - typical problems found when a tko is installed.
> GM F-body NO CUTTING - owners of Camaro and Firebirds will no longer have to notch the shifter hole and use a compromised boot sealing arrangement (req'd by tko).
> Corvette NO CUTTING - the main advantage of RS for Corvette owners is that there is no compromise of the driveline angle, and there is MUCH more clearance between the transmission and floor tunnel.
> GM B-body, NO CUTTING - For the first time ever, owners of Bel Air, Impala, Biscayne and other apps will be able to install a 5-Speed without the major tunnel surgery typical of the tko.
> GM X-body and other apps like Cobra kit car having a shallow tunnel will greatly benefit by the RS PerfectFit design, allowing installation with little (gen 1) to no mod (gen 2) to the floor tunnel, while keeping perfect shifter position. Again, these

2) Unsurpassed Shift Quality, High RPM Shifts, NO 2-3 Misssed Shifts
Thanks to the Borg Warner designed carbon fiber lined Blocker Rings in all gears, and Double Friction Cone system in 1st and 2nd gears, the RS features the best shift quality of any aftermarket manual transmission (including tremec tko, 3550, 3650, t5, t56, Richmond). At Keisler, we redesigned the shift systems of reverse, added bearing support under the shift forks and other portions of the single rail system. While the BW T45 was designed several years after BW T56, and shares it's synchro system design, the shift quality is even better than T56 because the shifter rail/fork/interlock system has less mass and fewer joints. The result is a very nimble shifter feel. Additionally, the advanced carbon lined synchro system has a much higher coefficient of friction than paper lined blockers, or just plain brass blockers (like TKO). The result is far less shift effort at the handle. The shift quality right out of the box is clean and smooth with no break-in, and a world of difference better than the best highly modified, proshifted TKO; withouth the big price adder.

The Keisler RS cleanly shifts at 7000rpm - more than 1000rpm higher than TKO's 6000rpm cutoff.

The RS has a guide plate shifter system unique to any manual 5-speed on the market. This guide plate mechanism cleanly guides the shifter in/out of gates 1-5 & R. A 2-3 miss shift so common to TKO - as many of you already know - is nearly impossible with the RS. I haven't been able to miss a 2-3 shift with the RS.

4) Close Ratio & Standard Ratio Gearsets
Standard Ratio Gearset - 3.37, 1.99, 1.34, 1.0, .67 (1.38 step change in 1st, 33% RPM drop in overdrive)
RS400 (400 torque): 1-1/16 x 10 spline input shaft, SAE 8620 nickel-moly steel alloy
RS500 (500 torque): 1-1/8 x 26 spline input shaft, SAE 9310 chrome-nickel-moly high strength steel alloy, CNC ground gears

Close Ratio Gearset (new)- 2.80, 1.99, 1.34, 1.0, .67 (.81 step change in 1st, 33% drop in overdrive)
RS600 (600 torque): 1-1/8 x 26 spline input shaft, SAE 9310 chrome-nickel-moly high strength steel alloy, CNC ground gears

3) Lower Cost and Better Value than previous offerings
Keisler Engineering created the business of retrofitting Tremecs and have sold more than 13,000 of those units since 1999.
The Keisler RS 5-Speed now sets the new benchmark of the flagship overdrive transmission system. And, we've managed to do it for hundreds of dollars less than the tko. And we're going here in the USA - gears, cases, shifter components
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Old 02-14-2011, 11:34 PM   #7
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Shafi informed me today via email that in order to install a RS500 or RS600 in my 71 I would have to unbolt the motor and move it forward a few inches or remove the motor.
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Old 02-15-2011, 12:07 AM   #8
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I ordered a TKO600 and two days later they announced their RS600. I changed my order and saved $500. Like they said, they're in production and I'm waiting for delivery. I ordered it just before X-Mas and was told that delivery wouldn't be until February. Better timing for me anyway. I'll post a writeup when I get it and install it. When I talked to them on the phone (great Customer Service btw) they raved about the RS compared to the TKO.

Scott
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Old 02-15-2011, 09:58 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcticcatmatt View Post
Shafi informed me today via email that in order to install a RS500 or RS600 in my 71 I would have to unbolt the motor and move it forward a few inches or remove the motor.
Why would you do that? You support the rear of the motor and you tilt it down for ease of getting to the upper bell housing bolts.

I keep forgetting about the non removable cross member. Get the removable cross member and make the job easier.
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Old 02-15-2011, 10:22 AM   #10
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^ I am just posting what he told me. I am trying to figure out if I want to order the RS500/RS600/TKO500/TKO600. I am comparing all 4 of them.

Who sells the replaceable cross member kit? A link would be appreciated. That would definitely help with the install. I just did a spreadsheet comparing all the gear ratios.
My 71 has 4:11 gears, 255/60/15 tires, 350 motor with LT-1 heads (330 hp heads) and a 4-71 roots style blower. Should be around 450 hp (on paper).

Last edited by arcticcatmatt; 02-15-2011 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 02-15-2011, 10:59 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by gkull View Post
Why would you do that? You support the rear of the motor and you tilt it down for ease of getting to the upper bell housing bolts.

I keep forgetting about the non removable cross member. Get the removable cross member and make the job easier.
The RS 5-speed is synchronized in reverse (TKO is not), and the lower portion of the extension housing is longer to the rear of the car due to this fact. When installing the transmission, it is too difficult to install with the WELDED IN Crossmember that all 4-speed Vettes are equipped with through 1979.

We make a really nice removable crossmember kit. Check it out here.

Moving the engine forward for the install gives you the room needed to do the job easier when working underneath the car. Removing the engine is a more practical approach for the owner that doesn't have a lift.
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Old 02-15-2011, 11:33 AM   #12
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Which one would you recommend to a big block car? TKO's have been quite popular here in Finland and I too am planning to get a 5 speed. I don't mind if its cheaper and easier to install. But I don't want any kind of durability issues - if there is any?

The close ratio RS600 sounds interesting. How is the 1st gear in city traffic?
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Old 02-15-2011, 12:22 PM   #13
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Which one would you recommend to a big block car? TKO's have been quite popular here in Finland and I too am planning to get a 5 speed. I don't mind if its cheaper and easier to install. But I don't want any kind of durability issues - if there is any?

The close ratio RS600 sounds interesting. How is the 1st gear in city traffic?
It really depends on a couple of things. Weight of the flywheel and your rear end gear.

I have the TKO600 2.87 first with 22 pound flywheel and this year changed to 3.55 rear end. 3.55 makes the first 4 gears very useable around town and the OD is for over 70 KM.

If you have a 3.36 or 3.08 rear it would require a little slip to get going.
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Old 02-15-2011, 12:32 PM   #14
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If you have a 3.36 or 3.08 rear it would require a little slip to get going.
3.36 it is. No idea about the flywheel though. Probably something stockish.

Isn't the 1st gear ratio for M21 2.20? So if RS600's 1st is 2.80 and RS4/500's 3.37 then the RS600 would be closer to the original? I don't know if I am thinking this the right way but wouldn't the RS600's ratio make it easier to get going than M21's?
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Old 02-15-2011, 12:56 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by ToniH View Post
3.36 it is. No idea about the flywheel though. Probably something stockish.

Isn't the 1st gear ratio for M21 2.20? So if RS600's 1st is 2.80 and RS4/500's 3.37 then the RS600 would be closer to the original? I don't know if I am thinking this the right way but wouldn't the RS600's ratio make it easier to get going than M21's?
Far easier 2.80 or 2.87 compared to a 2.20. It's just math. 3.36 X 2.80 = 9.04 overall ratio

Where you might or might not be unhappy is the final gear ratio jump. 1-1 to OD of .64 or .67 is big and unless you have power. With a 3.36 rear end I would look at the .82 OD TKO 600. It really comes down to how fast you drive
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Old 02-15-2011, 01:46 PM   #16
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Where you might or might not be unhappy is the final gear ratio jump. 1-1 to OD of .64 or .67 is big and unless you have power. With a 3.36 rear end I would look at the .82 OD TKO 600. It really comes down to how fast you drive
Haven't dynoed it so no idea but doesn't feel weak (engine specs). I guess my highway speeds are mostly 70-90mph so my revs are a bit too high to my liking - compared to my C4 with 700R4. I would prefer a good drop in revs while cruising on highways. In fact 4/5 of my driving is hw so I think I would mostly spend my time on 5th.
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:04 PM   #17
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ToniH did state "big-block". With my 454 I have a 3.08 rear gear with a TKO (0.67:1 OD). No problems at all, love it. I get 75mph @2000 rpm. I can lug it down to 1500 in 5th with no problems.
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:16 PM   #18
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ToniH did state "big-block". With my 454 I have a 3.08 rear gear with a TKO (0.67:1 OD). No problems at all, love it. I get 75mph @2000 rpm. I can lug it down to 1500 in 5th with no problems.
I went to toniH's web site and he has a 238/248 108 assuming H-flat cam. That might be kind of like my motor. Not real happy in OD at sub 2000 rpm. At his 70 - 90 mph it would work
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Old 02-15-2011, 03:31 PM   #19
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ToniH did state "big-block". With my 454....
Yeah, 454 too. Mech flat tappet cam.

Thanks guys, most helpful. I must do some thinking but I guess its not so complicated after all. I would drive in 1-4 gears in all other situations but hw cruise. So, I think it wouldn't bog down too badly. Now its other way around: 2500rpm @ 60mph (I think, 5 months since I tug her into the winter hibernation).
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Old 02-15-2011, 03:58 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zwede View Post
ToniH did state "big-block". With my 454 I have a 3.08 rear gear with a TKO (0.67:1 OD). No problems at all, love it. I get 75mph @2000 rpm. I can lug it down to 1500 in 5th with no problems.
Same here, you have some torque then no problem with 3.08 I have absoultly no problem driving around town and love to drop it down to the .64 OD and cruise at 80mph at less than 2000rpm. Best mod I have ever done.was the TKO 600. If road racing you want the higher OD gear .82 or some thing like that
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