oregonsharkman

I am a little confused on the torque values for ARP fasteners
I am installing ARP main studs in my 383 buildup, they are the 234-5601 SB Chevy with windage tray. There is a chart of recommended torque values (with and without lube) on the back of the box, but none of the values seems to match up with the 75lb/65lb inner/outer torque specs for my 4 bolt block.

Does anyone have any insight to this?? Is there some sort of conversion available for adding ARP lube to a fastener that needs, for instance, 75 lb/ft of torque??

Thanks in advance.

GOSFAST

Hi oregon, the torque specs from ARP for that kit is 80# with oil or 65# if you choose to use their moly lube. These are the 190,000# fasteners. Just curious, where's the directions or are they used?

These numbers are for all the fasteners, both the long and short ones, the length's do not make it different!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. I do a high number of units per year and do not use their Moly lube on the any of the crank/main fasteners, I use oil in that location. I do use the Moly on the rods, but not on the mains! Just my own preference.

Scott Marzahl

Stud torque values are totally different from what your stock rebuild values will be for bolts. Use the ARP directions, they have them on their website as well.

oregonsharkman

They are new and the "directions' are on the back of the box. The reason I was curious is the standard chevy main bolts have 2 different torque specs for the 4 bolt main caps--75lb inner bolts, and 65 outer bolts.

ARP gives only torque specs based on bolt (or stud) size. Should I subtract 10lb off of the outside ARP studs?? Or torque both inside and outside to the same spec??

442olds

There should have been a yellow piece of paper inside the box with the torque values for your studs. I don't believe that ARP reccomends a different torque value for the outside bolts. just torque the inners first and then the outers in two steps, start at 30 then 65 if you use the moly lube (highly reccommended and should have a small packet included in the box).

oregonsharkman

Thanks. The yellow piece of paper is now printed on the back off the box and the moly lube IS included. I "get" the different torque specs for the ARP lube vs. oil just wanted to make sure about the inner/outer thang

7T1vette

Standard bolt torque values are meant to be installed "dry"...no additional grease or lube, other than residual surface oil or protectant (anti-rust). You really shouldn't put lube on threads being torqued [I know I'll get arguments about this]. The torque place on a bolt/stud is designed to stretch the bolt into its "plastic deformation" zone -- an area where the bolt/stud will return the its original state with release of that torque. If you tighten farther, you get into "permanent deformation", where the metal is actually beginning to yield [fail]. Putting lube on threads reduces the friction considerably, so that a much lower torque is required to get the same "stretch" in the bolt. The trouble is that you can't predict how much less torque you need. That is why torque charts are set up to be done dry...most folks can do "dry". So, unless the technical manual you are using specifically calls for a thread to be lubed prior to torquing [and it should define what lube is to be used and how much], DON'T LUBE IT!

540 RAT

Actually it's the ELASTIC REGION where the bolt/stud will return the its original state with release of that torque, NOT the PLASTIC region. The PLASTIC REGION is where you get into "permanent deformation", where the metal is actually beginning to yield.

Dry torquing might be OK for general around home projects with hardware store bolts, but is NEVER the way to go for automotive applications. You absolutely SHOULD lube your ARP bolts/studs. Of course they give torque specs for using oil or their moly lube. Their torque values ARE based on the desired bolt/stud stetch. If you torqued them dry, most of the torque would be trying to overcome friction and you'd never get the needed stetch.

7T1vette

You are correct about the "elastic" and "plastic" regions...time does take its toll with the brain [or what's left of it]. But, except for that, my response stays the same. Worked 40 years for the "General" and did a lot of work on torque control. There were very few threads that were required to be lubed prior to torque...usually they were very high torque spanner nuts for transfer gear sets--something in the 300-500 ft-lb range. And I can guarantee that Haynes and other automotive manuals specify bolt/nut torque with "dry" threads. And, yes, the friction of un-lubed threads is higher; but it is more predictable than lubed threads.

oregonsharkman

Wow good information and interesting counterpoints Keep it coming.

gkz

What about loctite on the threads? Aren't you supposed to use the red loctite?

HP Hunter

You never use Loctite on any of the central fasteners. The central fasteners are the mains, the connecting rods, and the cylinder heads.

These specific areas should never have Loctite on them.

To oregon: it was written above to put 80 lbs. with oil on the mains, all 16 get that torque with the ARP 190 series fasteners. If you choose the moly the torque is the 65# number. Those specifications are correct. I dont use moly myself in these areas.

There is very specific rules and procedures in place when using any Loctite for fasteners. The problem you will see is if they must be removed ever or even just re-loosened for any reason all the original Loctite material thats hardened must be removed with a chemical cleaner from Loctite.

Not a good way to go with Loctite.

Harry P. Hunter

ratflinger

ARP spends lots of money each year on fastener technology, all of it in the high and extreme performance range. If they specify lube on their bolts & studs then you had darn well better use it. ARP's whole business model is based upon them knowing what they are talking about, in regards to high strength fasteners. Sure Haynes gives specs for unlubed, dry threads - they are not in the business of testing bolts, just repeating the OEM specs. I am not doubting your job experiences, but I'd be willing to bet that OEMs don't use lube, because on an assembly line it's much easier and quicker to install dry bolts and not be concerned about whether or not the bolts all got torque lube.

Here's the main point - If you use ARP, follow their instructions. If you use generic, the use the OEM instructions.

7T1vette

If you re-read my response, I stated that you should not lube unless the specification calls for lube and defines what type and how much. I'm not sure how I could have said that any clearer.

S489

from the memory bank comes the recollection that the mains should be tightened, loosened, and retightened about 5 times for brand new ARP studs. since i'm not quoting a source right now (besides me, and as i recall, the ARP rep), this will probably go down in flames until i get another source . . . for what it's worth . . .

glenn64vette

The Scat rep told me the APR rod bolts should be tightened, loosened and retightened 3 times on their rods. I usually do it 4 to 5 times on new ARP bolts.

ratflinger

Yes 2 messages up you did say that. Apologies for stepping on your toes.

dgruenke

I also saw this in an earlier thread. Why exactly is this done?

S489

taken from the 2005 ARP catalog, pg 27:
"Using A Torque Wrench

If the stretch method cannot be used in a particular installation,
and the fasteners must be installed by torque alone, there are certain
factors that should be taken into account. ARP research has verified
the following “rules” pertaining to use of a torque wrench:

1. The friction factor changes from one application to the next.
That is, the friction is at its highest value when the fastener is first
tightened. Each additional time the fastener is torqued and loosened,
this value gets smaller. Eventually the friction levels out and becomes
constant for all following repetitions. Therefore, new fasteners should
be tightened and loosened through several cycles before applying
final torque. The number of times depends on the lubricant. For
all situations where ARP lubricants are used, five cycles are required
before final torquing."

novaman

Ok, this is a really old thread and I realize that this won't help anyone who has posted already, but for future readers and reference here's how ARP is really done. There was some talk about putting ARP bolts in dry...why anyone would even attempt to say this is correct I do not know. All I know is my machinist (57 year experience building race car engines), my dad (35 year mechanic) and I have been building an engine with complete ARP bottom end to handle some extra muscle. ARP has spent gobs of money on their lube and figuring the best torque specs for their bolts WITH LUBE!!! The reason they have a specific lube is because they have put in the R&D and figured out the best torque for their bolts with this lube. All ARP bolts have torque specs that are EXTREMELY acurate with their lube. NOT DRY!