axelg89

Hi everyone!

I've read alot on this forum during my years of corvette owning and finally got my car driveable last spring. I had a lot of use for all advice that I got from around here but I now feel that's time to make my own first post.

During the years I've had a couple of "rebuilt" v8 engines that newer performed as well as I wanted them to. The term rebuilt when someone is selling a car is in my experiance usually containing a lot of maybes and I've grown very tired of it.

This Christmas I'm traveling over to the states with my entire family which makes it possible for me to import 200 lbs of car parts with me in the baggage home. The price for the parts will then be less then 40% of what it cost's to buy them here in Sweden. So I'm now planning on rebuilding my own sb and getting it to perform just the way I want it to

I'm a student so the driving economy as well as the price of the rebuild is of course very important for me. The engine is going into a -69 corvette convertible with a th350 that's going to be rebuilt and added a 2500 stall converter onto. The rear is so far 3.08.

This is the nr1 combo that I've been thinking about:

- Bored 350 4-bold main with 2 pc rear main seal
- Cast Scat 383 crank
- Forged I beem rods
- Forged flat top pistons
- 64cc 210 runners procomp heads (CNCd combustion chambers from white performance).
- Cam hyd flat tapped: .488/.507 LIFT .235/.243 DURATION @0.050
- Edelbrock RPM air gap or similar
- 1.5 aluminum roller rockers (of known brand)
- Double timing chain set
- Extended oil pan and high volume oil pump.
- Havn't really decided on carb, holley 750 DP?

According to my calculations this should put me on a 10.3:1 static compression. What do you think about this combo? Should this be a good street engine? Pros and cons? Modifications? This is new land for me so I'm happy for all the input I can get.

As I'm almost buying an entire new engine in parts I'm thinking that I might as well get a seperate block and building this engine on the side of the car. Should I get a newer roller block? If so what year? Should I otherwise invest the extra $$ for a retro hyd roller?

I'm also playing around with...
The idea of to the above but to change the heads to 58cc procomp, the pistons to forged dome, the cam to a roller retro-fit with about .600 lift and a single plane intake and a DP e85 carb (I'm aware that e85 contains less energy quantity wise and the engine will need more fuel but around here it's available every were at a 30% lower price then gas so that should compensate). Compression ~ 13.5:1. This would not be much more expensive in parts and would certainly be a very interesting engine but how will me street ability change? Mileage? HP numbers?

As I said earlier these are decisions that needs to be made soon and I'm very interested and thankfull for all the input I can get on my new engine build!

Best Regards Axel

gkull

You want a forged interally balanced crank and rotating assembly. buy them as a unit.

You compression figures are off. Go to an online calculator.

This being a H-flat is to much duration, As a roller it would be fine,

- Cam hyd flat tapped: .488/.507 LIFT .235/.243 DURATION @0.050

Indiancreek

How is the quality of the fuel there? Octane consistant?

cv67

http://www.wallaceracing.com/cr_test2.php

RobbSalzmann

Too much cam in a mild engine will be disappointing.

Figure out how the engine will likely run before deciding the stall converter configuration. I know you're pressed for time, but this is another one of those elements that affect drivability and fun factor.

As George mentions, you can buy a rotating assembly. In fact you can buy a balanced rotating assembly. Check ebay for some ideas. Also CNC Motorsports has a very detailed website to help stimulate your thinking.

Since you're also shopping for a block, consider going with as large a bore as you can afford. You'll be glad you did. For a few hundred$ more you can pretty easily get into Big Block numbers like 427 and 436. A 427 SB with a somewhat mild street cam, 9.5 to 1 compression, decent heads brodix or AFR (any decent 2.02 x 1.60 head) and 1800 - 2000 stall converter will have a very nice seat of the pants feel.

For $1500 you can buy a 427 SB Dart block at Summitt or Jegs. Part Number:DRT-31161211

If you need help getting parts after your return to the Land of Norhtern Lights, drop me a PM. I have a couple other european friends that I help out this way.

Builds on a tight budget are very informative and great to watch. I hope you'll post often about your progress, and be sure to put up a pic of your car.

axelg89

Don't know what crappy calculator I found last time, when redone I'm getting 11.23 SCR based on 0.00 deck hight, would that be more correct? Is that runnable on pump gas or should I go lower?

Regarding the cam, is it worth the extra $$ for a roller?
Otherwise: .465/.488 LIFT .225/.235 DURATION @0.050?

We don't at all have the same problems with the e85 (from the gas station) fuel as you seem to do. Our is very consistent and even some proffessional dragracers have started to use it, actually I've never heard anyone complaining about it around here bur I might be in the shadow. The e85 is around $5.9/US gal which makes it really atractive.

Normal gas is good too.
¤ Regular that is called 95 (your 91) is about $7.9/gal, quality and consistancy may vary a bit
¤ Premium 98 (93) is about $8.2/gal and has good quality
¤ Super is 99/100 (95) is about $8.4/gal and has real good quality (made by Shell)

But hell it's expensive. My university offers me an exchange year to the USA in 2 years and I'm already looking forward to driving around in a BB just because I can

Thank alot for the nice answer, I absolutely will! Regarding the engine i've really decided to take things cool and get it right so I'm gonna try. Will keep all of you posted all the way to the dyno room.

Regarding the parts your ideas look great but my budget is even tighter then that (did I mentioned i'm a student with the total regular income at $450 a month?), and the block will be a damn heavy piece to carry around at the airport . Will start looking at bigger bores though.

Regarding the rotating assembly would I be ok in this range or is this trying to have lunch for free?:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SBC-CHEVY-SC...item5638de3519

Heads are a true jungle and looking at dyno numbers, flow numbers etc AFR seems to be the best, but ~$1500 does more to my wallet then just hurt it a bit. Is that the only way to go? Been looking a bit at White Performance which from a computer in Sweden looks like a pretty serious company (ofcourse doesn't meen anything) and they make a lot of builds on PC210 and 190 heads like these onces
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SBC-CHEVY-21...item4cf9942c63
The flow numbers are not at all that bad and he claims to get 440 hp out of his 383 at 5800 rpm with these heads and the cam mentioned in my first post. I've no problem putting hours to polish and porting a set. How far would they take me? Is the whole head-thing a go big or go home deal?

I understand that I'm trying to get a half free lunch but that's kind of what my carhobby is all about at the moment which is to bad but true. If it can't be done I'll simply have to go lower on the outcome.

Anyways, here are three pictures of my baby and there will be more coming!






that was really a long one, hope someone made it through

Thanks for all your help
Best Regards Axel

gkull

Most motors have a .025 deck, add the gasket, flat tops valve reliefs are like -6 cc, and piston wall to top ring is -2 cc

But anyway my spare 383 has flat tops and 64 cc heads. They end up somewhere inbetween 10.7 and 11.2 That is how I would build it and it is enough compression to run e-85 or good gas.

An h-flat cam of 226- 230 intake and 110-112 LS would work.

I've bought rotating kits from www.flatlanderracing.com.

axelg89

I was playing around a bit in CamQuest from Compcams putting all flow data in from the PC210 etc getting the following:

with the 2200-5800 roller alternative:


with a milder flat-tapped cam:


both produce pretty numbers according to this program at least and you all seem to be refering to the same durations as the program..

axelg89

I've found a block, it's a roller block after -86 unbored, 4-bolt main and with a slot for mechanical fuel pump. Is that a good block to build on? It would allow me to go full roller without putting $700 at a retro-fit setup..

If it sounds good, how should I inspect it when I go to look at it. I asked and he said he couldn't feel any "turns" from the pistons, can I measure the bore exact enough to determine if it needs a larger rebore?

cv67

just measuire the bore that will tell the story. Should be 4.00 if its 4.030 still has a rebuild maybe even 2 in it.

Take the money you save and get some good heads youll be sooo much happier. Cant expect much for a $700 set of heads and the ad repeatedly says that. Surprised at the size of the ports especially the exhaust the flow is so bad. Thats the easiest port to get to hum;cc could use some love but it is what it is.

Learned my lesson about cheaping out on heads.

axelg89

I agree the flow numbers look really bad when compared.. the intake looks good though. Strange.

Reading the forums you find alot of negative thoughts of the pro comp from 2005-2008 but in some newer threads people seem pretty happy happy with them. Anyone else here wih nubers or experiance on PC heads?

There is a jungle of heads out there but it kind of feels like the next step is real CNC'd heads like AFR, and those are $1400 with valves at the best
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AFR-SBC-210c...item3cbef54de2

how much would I gain on putting an extra $700 on AFR heads?

Would be cool to break the 500 N/A hp barrier, pretty cool numbers

One more question. I find different figures everywhere, how much power does the th350 steal compared to a muncie?

Thx

Little Mouse

Stay away from the pro comp head quality of them is very poor. Not even going to try to tell all the things said about them by machine shops over at www.speedtalk.com. Next door neighbor bought a set for a BBC chevy the valve covers won't even fit on them without him doing a lot of grinding to make them fit, dropped seats out of them are common. Brodix IK200 are $1100.00 www.brodix.com.
www.summitracing.com or www.jegs.com will have them. it does use a large FPP- 1206 entry into the head. but the rags all seem to use the high rise dual planes on them. Redman76 on this forum has a set of IK200 brodix and a edelbrock dual plane. Or any other head you can afford other then pro-comp. I invite you to go over to speed talk. Talk to all the machine shops and engine builders on that site about pro-comp heads. You are building a low rpm hydraulic cam engine you don't need a runner as big as 210.

DRIVESHAFT

The Brodix IK heads have been a great performance per dollar option for a while now.
I just recently noticed that Dart has come out with some heads aimed at the same part of the market.
They call them their SHP aluminum heads, and they are priced very attractively.
Look here http://www.jegs.com/i/Dart/301/12732...ductId=1691309
Right now I have never seen a set in person, or even heard of anyone running them, but with Dart's reputation I wouldnt be afraid to try them.

axelg89

Ok, got the message. I'm going with real heads!

Got hold of a guy that sells unused AFR 195 that are about 5 years old. He claims he paid ~$1500 at the time.

Numbers:
On the rear of the head these are the the following #s
590
828
sc190 stai
inside the heads these are the #s
8p22
J02
sp13

anyone got any clue what those numbers mean? Should I jump at these heads if I get them at a reasonable price?

Thanks

RobbSalzmann

You may have already figured it out, but with this block you'll need a different crank setup (one piece rear main seal).



You won't be disappointed with Brodix or Dart heads.

MotorHead

All the way to the end and no one told him to get 170cc heads, what's going on around here ?? Soon someone is going to suggest a Holley 750DP, I say keep the compression to 9:1 get some of those killer Vortec heads, 650 Edelbrock carb, a 218 dur. cam and that beauty Performer manifold.

You have to clearance a SHP block for a 4 inch crank unless they changed it, the only block for under ridiculous prices is the Motown block I have that will accept a 4 inch crank without doing anything to it and they ain't exactly cheap either.

axelg89

The dart SHP is the option I like the most, they are about $920 shipped which is really good and they seem like good heads. But shouldn't unused AFR that used to be $1500 be even better?

Got it with the 1pc rear main seal and don't really see any problem with that part as I'm getting a new rotating assembly anyways so it doesn't really matter.

The dart SHP mentioned above was not a block but heads. I'm sticking to a stock block and clearing it for the stroker rotating assembly as aftermarket blocks are really hard to come by around here.

I don't at all want to step down to 170cc, 9:1, vortech heads and 218 dur. I'm looking to get enough performance in this engine build to last for a while (>450 N/A hp, and beeing able to put some nitrous onto that at the track in the future).

By the way I looked into what I have today, 4-bolt main from 1985 with 261 heads 76cc from 1986. This build will sure mean some difference in performance!

axelg89

need a quick answer to this,

anyone that can tell me for sure that this is a roller block



was a flat tapped cam in there but the seller sais is a roller block which makes me confused..

thanks

billla

Yep, that's a roller block.

You can tell by the bosses in the center of the cam valley to hold the factory spider, the flat, machined top to the lifter bores and the holes for the retainer plate on the front of the cam boss.

Don't mind the trolls

axelg89

thanks!

So the circus has started . I now own a second block!