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Old 12-04-2011, 06:18 PM   #1
no4n4me
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Default Cloyes issues

Well I am making progress on my 383. I ran into a little snag though.

I have the Cloyes 2 piece timing cover and now when I try to put on the GM aluminum water pump it is a no go.

The water pump and timing cover contact each other. I am sure I got the right parts according to Summit.

Water pump: GM Performance 19168604
Timing cover: Cloyes Gear 9-221

Did anyone else run into this problem?

Thank you!
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:35 PM   #2
Phil Zell
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I do not believe that cover will work with a short water pump
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Old 12-04-2011, 08:10 PM   #3
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Cloyes Gear 9-221 requires long water pump, you have a short one
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Old 12-04-2011, 08:21 PM   #4
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I am using that timing cover with an Edelbrock short water pump. The water pump body does not touch the cover, but 2 of the bolts on the back of the pump did, so I milled them down, and no more problems.

Last edited by 7t2vette; 12-04-2011 at 08:25 PM.
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Old 12-04-2011, 08:28 PM   #5
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I replaced the pump rear bolts with Allen button bolts and I machined off the face of the Cloyes cover.
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:00 PM   #6
no4n4me
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7t2vette,

would you happen to remember the part number?
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkull View Post
I replaced the pump rear bolts with Allen button bolts and I machined off the face of the Cloyes cover.
I am guessing you have the GM pump? I would bet mine needs almost a 3/16 to 1/4 inch off.
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no4n4me View Post
I am guessing you have the GM pump? I would bet mine needs almost a 3/16 to 1/4 inch off.
No at the time I had a high volume. Which means that the impeller is wider and the rear pump cover is thicker. I later on went to a Weiand team G and a Stewart stage III. You could possibly use the gaskets and make two template spacers.
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:30 PM   #9
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They make spacers to turn a short into a long water pump, only problem is now your belts won't line up, you can't use a long water pump in a C3.
See if you can exchange it for the correct one.
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:36 PM   #10
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had the same issue with one of those generic aluminum cast 1 pc timing covers and a hi flo pump, cover and plate I had to mill down some and it still "just" fit. Cover is too thick

Think I ground part of the WP housing down too where it contacted part of the cover. Nothing is bolt on right?!lol
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotorHead View Post
They make spacers to turn a short into a long water pump, only problem is now your belts won't line up, you can't use a long water pump in a C3.
See if you can exchange it for the correct one.
I understand that but the timing cover is glued and screwed to the block.
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuisinartvette View Post
had the same issue with one of those generic aluminum cast 1 pc timing covers and a hi flo pump, cover and plate I had to mill down some and it still "just" fit. Cover is too thick

Think I ground part of the WP housing down too where it contacted part of the cover. Nothing is bolt on right?!lol
Well..:o
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:50 AM   #13
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Hey guys, not sure till I call Weiand to confirm but I think the Weiand 9221 will work. I see the measurement from the back of the pump to the block is .4 longer then the GM pump. I will report back with the verdict later today.

Thanks guys! Keeping my fingers crossed.
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:42 AM   #14
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No need to spend more money.

I have that exact setup. Cloyes 9-221 and Gm 19168604. All I did was replace the bolts on the back of the waterpump with buttonhead allen bolts from ACE hardware. They do touch but once the waterpump bolts were tightened down, everthing fit with no problem and no leaks.

I also used hex socket screws for the timing chain cover.

Picture:
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Old 12-05-2011, 08:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveG75 View Post
No need to spend more money.

I have that exact setup. Cloyes 9-221 and Gm 19168604. All I did was replace the bolts on the back of the waterpump with buttonhead allen bolts from ACE hardware. They do touch but once the waterpump bolts were tightened down, everthing fit with no problem and no leaks.

I also used hex socket screws for the timing chain cover.

Picture:
Click the image to open in full size.
Steve, Thank you! I just dont get it with mine. I bet I am 3/16 to a 1/4 from the GM pump touching the block.

I did call Weiand and Summit and they both confirmed the measurements of the 9221 so it should be a great combo.

Also the Cloyes is 9-221 and Weiand 9221.

Thank you to everyone that replied. I take every bit of information very serious and give it great thought. I really appericate the help.
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Old 12-12-2011, 07:07 PM   #16
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Hey guys, just a quick update that may help someone that happens to have the same trouble I had.

I went with the Weiand 9221 water pump. Cloyes 9-221 2 piece timing cover. To get clearance between the water pump and timing cover I used Allstar Performance .125" spacer kit. This gives me about 3/16" clearance between the water pump and the timing cover. It also sets the hub face at 5 13/16" off the block.

I am not sure why mine is different from what others got to work but, all is good now.

Thanks to everyone!
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Old 12-12-2011, 07:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no4n4me View Post
Hey guys, just a quick update that may help someone that happens to have the same trouble I had.

I went with the Weiand 9221 water pump. Cloyes 9-221 2 piece timing cover. To get clearance between the water pump and timing cover I used Allstar Performance .125" spacer kit. This gives me about 3/16" clearance between the water pump and the timing cover. It also sets the hub face at 5 13/16" off the block.

I am not sure why mine is different from what others got to work but, all is good now.

Thanks to everyone!
And your belts line up?
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Later,
Sly
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Old 12-12-2011, 07:57 PM   #18
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I don't have the pulleys installed yet. But if this information is correct then I will have no worries.
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Old 12-12-2011, 07:57 PM
 
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