scottyp99

I imagine it's a lot like eating chicken soup when you have a cold. It probably won't actually help, but hey, it can't hurt, right? The other thing I have been thinking about is filling the exhaust crossover passage in the intake manifold with an insulative expanding foam.


Scott

jim2527

Over on the bicycle forum we had discussion about internal preservation of steel frames and one of the industry recommended products. I decided to do a good old fasioned non-scientific in front of my garage door test.

I took a piece of metal and taped it off into sections. Each section was treated with 'product' and left outdoors to see which best prevented rust. From left to right:

Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil
WD40
Corrosion Block
Boeshield T-9
Liquid Wrench product (dont recall which one)
Loctite product (dont recall which one)

Make of the testing methodology and results what you'd like....

69 Chevy

I've only applied the insulating varnish to cast iron. I've never seen a reference where it was used on aluminum, like the underside of an intake manifold.

todd74

Wow, never expected this much from a question. Thank you all for the information. As far as painting the Heads as well as the rest of the motor at some point, It looks like Eastwood has an engine paint that would last for a while. http://www.eastwood.com/ew-ceramic-e...hev-ornge.html Has anyone used this product? Could I powdercoat the engine? What is better if so?

TheSkunkWorks

I probably wouldn't bother going to the trouble or expense for a mild build, but suggest looking at this if you want to get serious about thermal coatings...

http://www.swaintech.com/store.asp?pid=10296

Otherwise, I'd stick with what's been proven to work inside and out before experimenting here.

Ben Lurkin

Let's look at a cost-benefit analysis of Glyptal:

Potential benefits are perhaps, somewhat better oil return from the lifter valley; although literally millions of engines have survived just fine without it.

Top fuel engine block - no Glyptal.



Cons of glyptal - Extra cost, has to cure right, surface prep has to be correct, etc. If any of it gets loose, it winds up in the bearings and lifters. When the risk of failure is trashing the engine is it really worth it?

Glyptal is one of those myths that goes in the same category of "pumping the pan dry" because you have a h/v oil pump, double-pumpers make you faster, and all 350's at the car show make "about 500 hp".

d555

[QUOTE=Ben Lurkin;1580026281]Let's look at a cost-benefit analysis of Glyptal:



Top fuel engine block - no Glyptal.



...alloy block, rebuilt every 2 miles

Glyptal is one of those myths

So what's the myth? Is it that it will still rust in the valley/head area on a iron block?
Or that it won't help in oil drain back?

Dave

cv67

What is the fascination with oil draining back so quick?

You got oil in the pan pumping up so youre good.

Its still going to take close to the same amount of time to pool up by the drainback areas in the lifter valley and is pretty much dicatated by how much is being pumped upstairs anyway.

Doesnt matter either way. Have used Glyptal a few times, completely polished a lifter valley and 0 difference on (now) a non treated block.

If you like it go for it but it will make 0 difference to your motors longevity.

If you want to do something then if you think you got some casting slag anywhere inside the block that you reeeealy think could bust off then go after that maybe spend a little time massaging oil drainback holes....in the HEAD, too. Be careful with those though.

Ben Lurkin

[QUOTE=d555;1580026828]I realize they are alloy blocks, point being that they are cast, just like iron blocks, and they (generally) survive without glyptal. Oil drainback is just fine without it. I have used it and saw zero benefit. What's the point to something that takes extra time, effort and cost that doesn't do anything for you?

If your lifter valley is rusting so are your cylinder walls. That being the case, you have bigger problems.

Indiancreek

The more smooth the surface the less surface area. The less surface area and the more insulated the less heat transfers to the oil. The faster the oil gets back into the oil pan the less time the oil has to receive the heat transfer. Therefore I suspect less cooling would take place in the lifter valley area.
Enough to make a difference???? Above my pay grade to know that.

7t9l82

fuel motors block and heads are billet not cast. which gives them a nice smooth finish.

billla

It kinda feels like the "sides" are hardening up on this a bit, and the messaging has become a bit wonky

I don't think anyone is classing using Glyptal in the cam valley as a "must do" by any means - 99.999999999999999% of engines don't...and I don't think anyone has ever claimed "failure due to non-use of Glyptal" I have never - ever - heard of Glyptal coming off...so I don't see the risk. I understand the concept of "first, do no harm", i.e., not doing something that has a downside when the upside is questionable, but I haven't seen any downside other than time and a couple of bucks.

OTOH and IMHO, anything that promotes oil drainback is a Good Thing. I clean up the drainbacks and get rid of casting flash, etc. when I deburr the block. It takes me about 20 minutes to paint the valley after the block comes back from the shop. I also go around and break sharp edges, chamfer bolt holes, etc. Maybe none of those have any real value as was previously claimed...but as a home builder I'm not on the clock and I can do any little things I think will improve the function of the engine...whether they actually do or not

So do. Or do not. Your call.

billla

How did you measure "zero benefit"?

on both counts.

69427

The oil cooling rate there is small, but it's free. I'll take it.

Indiancreek

Not much coolant in the floor of the lifter valley. That's where the heat from the lifter friction is taking place.

Ben Lurkin

Well, maybe measured isn't the right word in a strictly quantitative sense. There weren't any failures from oiling issues that one could say were due to 'drainback'. I'm not sure how you could even do a meaningful test on that.

Like I said, I've used it, but can't attribute any real benefit to it.





It looks nice I guess.

On to other 'topics'.

billla

Nice work, Ben - even if there weren't benefits.

I agree we're making cat food at this point ;-)

scottyp99

Do the lifters actually create much heat? I always thought the majority of heat made by the engine was from combustion, and the well lubricated moving parts didn't really create any appreciable heat. Then again, if this were the case, why would the oil ever get hotter than the coolant, which it obviously can, and sometimes does, do? Can somebody with some knowledge elaborate?


Keep the shiny side up!
Scott

69427

Who said anything about coolant in the valley floor?

The oil draining down from the heads flows down the valley walls, primarily at the front and rear, and a bit through some casting spaces in the middle of the head. The valley walls are temperature controlled by the coolant flow. As the oil drains back on the valley surfaces it transfers heat into the cast iron and then into the coolant.

The oil should be losing some (small) amount of heat on its way down to the lifter valley. That's free cooler oil hitting the lifter area.

TheSkunkWorks

As for reasons quicker oil return might be desired, even with an 8 qt., multi-gated RR pan my shark corners hard enough that I've had recurring issues with loosing prime during long sweepers. So, if Glyptal helps get oil back to the sump a little faster, I'm all for it.


FWIW, before anyone starts throwing other solutions my way, I run a pressure-balanced, bottom-feed, submerged pump, a crank scraper, have an Accusump ready to install and will be adding a modern one-way windage screen before buttoning things back up. Yep, worked the passages and such too. Total system capacity will end up north of 12 quarts, all up.