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Old 04-30-2012, 07:26 PM   #1
Dkarr
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Default Help needed - adjustable guide plates? Rockers won't line up

Hey guys. Need some advice from seasoned engine builders here. Take a look at my photos below. I just bolted on my set of new Brodix IK180 heads onto my 350 rebuild this weekend and it looks like my rocker arms aren't lining up with the valves. The exhaust looks OK but the intake is off pretty bad. I also got an adjustable pushrod and checked for the length that I will need will. Turns out I do need some a good bit longer than stock (I measure 7.965 end to end with a dial caliper).

So now the questions... am I going to HAVE to buy adjustable guide plates to fix this? I loosened up the rocker arms and tried to wiggle around the comp cams plates that are on there but they don't look like they budge much at all. Why would they put guide plates on these that wouldn't line up push rods on a bland vanilla 010 block 350??? I can't think of a more common combo than what I have here.

Also, I think my rocker arm witness mark is in the right spot given the length I found on the push rod. Could someone confirm that this looks good?

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Old 04-30-2012, 08:00 PM   #2
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You may have to make the guide plate mounting holes bigger so you can move it around to make the rocker arms center on the top of the valve. I had to do this on brand new Edelbrock heads.
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Old 04-30-2012, 08:14 PM   #3
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Common issue. Typical solution is to cut the part of the guide plate where it connects the two halves and weld them back together.

I had the same problem with my Edelbrock BBC heads and the guide plates Edelbrock supplied! Just for kicks I bought some guide plates from GM and everything lined up fine. Go figure.
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Old 04-30-2012, 08:26 PM   #4
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Rather than cutting and welding these guides I think I'll just buy a set of adjustable ones from comp or proform. Do you have to weld them once they are setup though? I don't have access to any welding equipment currently.
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:26 PM   #5
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Wonder if eliminating the guideplates and using self aligning rockers would be easier. Hate when you run into that stuff!
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:48 PM   #6
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Isky adjustable guide plates; make sure you get the right size for your pushrods.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ISK-200-AGP/
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:29 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billla View Post
Isky adjustable guide plates; make sure you get the right size for your pushrods.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ISK-200-AGP/
What about the welding though? Is that a must? I don't have access to any welding equipment.
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:19 AM   #8
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I wouldn't weld them, unless the manufacturer calls for it.
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:11 PM   #9
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So I just talked to the tech team at Brodix... they told me that this was pretty common and that I would be fine running this motor as is... I don't know how I feel about that though... Guide plates are only $55. I'm sure they are a pain in the a$$ to install but if it makes things right...

Thoughts on running these just the way they are??
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:23 PM   #10
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I wouldn't run them with that kind of mis-alignment. It's putting a side load on the valve which is going to show up in premature guide wear.

The adjustable guide plates are easy to install - a couple of hours. No welding required
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:23 PM   #11
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I wouldn't feel good about running it as is. Did Brodix offer to pay for a new motor in case a rocker goes and spreads shrapnel around? Didn't think so.
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:26 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billla View Post
I wouldn't run them with that kind of mis-alignment.

The adjustable guide plates are easy to install - a couple of hours. No welding required
That's what I was thinking too. Better safe than sorry.
I talked to the guys at Comp Cams about the adjustable guide plates. They actually recommended using JB weld as opposed to mig welding. I will have to admit... I actually thought about posting this possibility on here but then refrained at the thought that it would be too "bubba". Looks like it could actually be a legitimate option though.

Thanks for the insight billla!
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:37 PM   #13
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The guide plates aren't loaded, and they're held in by the rocker studs at 60# torque...they're not going to move. Where is this welding thing coming from?
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
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The guide plates aren't loaded, and they're held in by the rocker studs at 60# torque...they're not going to move. Where is this welding thing coming from?
Some of the manufactures say that in their description, check here http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ISK-200-AGP/

The comp cams part also mentions welding but it does say "for extra stability" which lead me to believe it wasn't required. I'm going with your suggestion and installing them without the weld. 60 ft/lbs of torque on the stud should be plenty to hold them in place.
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:54 PM   #15
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The biggest thing to watch for is a shift during torquing them down - which I expect is why they note you "may" want to put a weld zot on.
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:36 PM   #16
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[QUOTE=billla;1580699384]I wouldn't run them with that kind of mis-alignment. It's putting a side load on the valve which is going to show up in premature guide wear.

I wouldn't put JB weld in there either. The last thing you need is a chunk of it wandering through your engine.
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dkarr View Post
I loosened up the rocker arms and tried to wiggle around the comp cams plates that are on there but they don't look like they budge much at all. Why would they put guide plates on these that wouldn't line up push rods on a bland vanilla 010 block 350??? I can't think of a more common combo than what I have here.

Also, I think my rocker arm witness mark is in the right spot given the length I found on the push rod. Could someone confirm that this looks good?
Did you loosen the studs themselves where they screw into the head? You should have a little adjustment on the guide plates. Just break the studs loose from the head, just snug them and tap the plates sideways the direction you need to center the rocker on the valve tip then remove the rocker arms and torque the rocker studs down. The witness marks look fine. The plates don't need to move hardly at all to take up the distance your rockers alignment is off.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:20 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dkarr View Post
Some of the manufactures say that in their description, check here http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ISK-200-AGP/

The comp cams part also mentions welding but it does say "for extra stability" which lead me to believe it wasn't required. I'm going with your suggestion and installing them without the weld. 60 ft/lbs of torque on the stud should be plenty to hold them in place.
This probably should be obvious, but unless you mark them, are willing to pull them off, weld them and reinstall; leave them unwelded. Under no circumstances should they be welded in place. Good way to get a bunch of slag in the motor.
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:11 PM   #19
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I've got some Isky adjustable guilde plates here if you're interested.

$10 plus shipping

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-p...post1580690391
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Old 05-02-2012, 02:56 PM   #20
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Quote:
They actually recommended using JB weld as opposed to mig welding.
Are you serious????

About the best advice you can get from a 10/hr phone jockey

That stuff melts when it gets too hot.
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Old 05-02-2012, 02:56 PM
 
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