Little Mouse

September Car Craft test of eight heads all different brands under $1000.00. Test mule a 350. Camshaft 224/234 .050 4.65/4.85 lift. 114 LSA. Scoggin-dickey modified vortec head. stock 170 runners, only mod cut down guides to allow more lift. Engine made 408 ft lbs at 4300 rpm 378 hp at 5,300 rpm. Head is out of the 1980s.

Same engine 2012 Dart shp 200cc runner. 417 ft lbs torque at a lower 4200 rpm. But the horsepower goes way up to 419 hp at 6200 rpm. A 41 hp improvement over the vortec on a 350 only turning to 6200 rpm Obviously the vortec head fell strait off a cliff at only 5,300 rpm on a 350 size engine that cliff would obviously be even lower on a 383 build.

The vortec head was second to last in the test. It was better 20 hp better then a 168cc runner head strait out of the 1960s, 29 ft lbs better then the 1960s head.

Vortec its a 1980s head time moves on leaves the past in the dust. Live in the past or move forward for more power.

scottyp99

I read that article, and I have to say I was very disappointed that they used the 200cc intake port version of the SHP head, instead of the 180cc version. An obvious orange thrown in among the apples. And it still only eked out 1 horsepower more than the Patriot 185cc heads. Still, it was an interesting article.


Keep the shiny side up!
Scott

Little Mouse

The point of me starting the thread is all new heads have improved in huge amounts not just over the 60s heads but the 80s vortec head. Time to move on regardles what runner you want. The biggest runner head 200cc made more torque then a 170 runner head 100 rpm lower then the old tech 1980s head. The one 185 runner head made no more torque a little less then the 200 runner head. 200 runner dart torque 417 at 4200 rpm the 185 runner head 417 at 4300 rpm. The old tale a 200 runner head is to big for a mild 350 has now become a myth. The 200 runner head made more torque then any head in the test. By large numbers then many in the test at lower rpms along with more hp.

63mako

Another point is all the runs use the same cam. Many of the larger port heads flow well past .500 lift. If you leave the duration the same and bump lift on a bigger port head you get better cylinder filling, even at lower rpm with zero effect on operating range or streetability but better cylinder filling will make more power= more torque (they did use 1.6 rocker on all but the vortec). One thing also not taken into account is the dyno runs start at 3600 RPM so increased torque due to increased port velocity using a smaller port head in the lower range are not shown. Most street engine spend 90% of their life below 3600 RPM so the statement that your better off running a 200 CC head on a street 350 is a little misleading. The advantages of using aluminum over iron also have to be factored in.

bluedawg

Besides weight reduction & heat disipation, what other benefits do aluminum heads offer?

Little Mouse

Only seen tiny torque improvement between the two runner sizes at very low rpms. But bigger big drop offs in power with the small runner. I'm seeing tony mamo come on speed talk recomend there 195 head for 350 builds the posters using a hydraulic roller.

One very big problem with very low rpm theory. Lets say you have a 4 speed trans. You take off 1rst gear lets say you hit 6200 rpm shift to 2nd gear engine drops 1500 rpm to 4700 rpm you pull back up to 6200 shift to 3rd engine drops again to to 4700 rpm you go up to 6200 rpm again shift to 4th engine drops to 4700 rpm.
You only got to use any tiny advantage of lets say 15 ft lbs below 3500 rpm of the smaller head for only little past half of 1rst gear. You got to use the extra power of the bigger head from that point on all the way through 3 more gears or in the case of five or 6 speeds another four two five gears.

Another thing you decide to drag race just your mild street car not even near a race car your going to start out at 3000+ rpm low gear never come back to even close to that low rpm anymore whether its a stick or mild up grade of converter.

Yes you can argue you never get on your car 90 percent of time just putt around in it. But this also is misleading. When you decide to now use it as a performance car what it does at 3500 rpm or below matters little " only for a litle past half of first gear ". Then you never see that low rpm again from then on.

scottyp99

Ummmm........they look wicked cool?

I have always wondered why aluminum heads were so much more expensive than iron heads, anyway. The only real difference between an iron head and an aluminum head is that the aluminum head is made of aluminum. Aluminum can't be that expensive! Plus, it's a lot easier to machine.


Keep the shiny side up!
Scott

Little Mouse

Aluminum head will be less likely to crack.

Easier to repair a crack in one should it happen.

scottyp99

Excellent point, LM, forgot about that. It's a lot easier to hump an aluminum head over a fender, too. And, don't forget.........they look wicked cool!

Aluminum heads have their drawbacks, too, though, especially when mated to an iron block. They will warp out of shape easier if you overheat the engine. If you are contemplating aluminum heads on your small block, get your cooling system in order first!


Keep the shiny side up!
Scott

Little Mouse

There is generally an upside and a downside to something.
Aluminum you have to be more carefull with them use studs. Easier to pull out threads on them or threads gall on them. I like iron heads on a SBC but the weight savings really comes into play on a BBC. Not with you but most people are on the looks I prefer the look of the heads painted same color as the block.

cv67

it takes a LOT to warp an aluminum head they run so hot routinely these days I wouldnt worry about that one. Thing is they surface easy..and usually dont crack. Shoot if you drop a valve and destroy the head it can be welded up and repaired, the iron goes in the round file.

Mako some good points there. Vortecs for the $ are an improvement but imo get a little more hype than they have earned for power.

Looking forward getting rid of my Dart 230s....and stepping up to some AFR 220s with more power everywhere this winter. Technology

gkull

I would not even put a dime in iron heads. I had a two valves go down into the cylinders and broke off. they completly smashed and broke the head chambers and into the water jacket. I sent them back to ARP and the head that was all tore up you could not tell the differnce between it and my unhurt one.

The same thing with aluminum blocks. You can kick a rod out the side and we weld them up at the shop

tfi racing

Are any of the big names still producing iron small block heads?I thought most of them were moving away from cast iron and only offering aluminum.

CA-Legal-Vette

Dart for one. Superb heads for the money.

76strokervette

Pro-Filer 210 for my shp based 400.300 + cfm heads as cast, should be
very interesting when done.Guessing 1.4 to 1.5 hp per cid.

MotorHead

I made 296RWHP and 330 RWT with the 200cc iron Sportsman II heads right out of the box on pump gas ten years ago on my 355ci L48, I have a video and dyno prinouts. So nothing new here other than prices coming down which is nice and I have always thought my John Deer lawnmower made more power than Vortec heads, I wouldn't put those heads on someone's motor I didn't like

MotorHead

What size intake valve did you get and what cam are you going to use ? Making 600HP is not easy, the motor has to rev, with a 400ci engine your going to have to rev it over 7000RPM with a solid roller.

cv67

Seen a few of the EQ iron cyl heads look interesting for the money.
Wish there was more comparo information on them.

Little Mouse

Racer pro has an aluminum SBC head i would like to have australian company with australian foundry. Australia is interesting. In the USA the SBC is highly used down there its the cleveland ford.

63mako

The big one is detonation resistance. If your running 9.5 to 1 compression on premium pump gas with iron heads you can run 10 to 1 with aluminum with no cam change. Or on a higher compression build you can use a more streetable cam.