1970 454 coolant overflow problem. help.
05-13-2013, 12:00 AM
#1
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1970 454 coolant overflow problem. help.
I have original 70 454 with overflow coolant tank. I have heard all the stories about overheating so I had a local shop switch out the radiator for aluminum Griffith when it was getting rebuilt. However, I am still having issues (temp guage has also been replaced). When the car sits and runs, it upwards of 230, when it starts to drive for a while it cools but only to about 190-210. Then after about 20 minutes of driving, it starts going up again to 230 about. Then when I stop (which is kind of embarrasing when your going to a fancy dinner or whatver), the overflow starts to hiss and bubble, spewing coolant and steam from under the car (throught the overflow coolant tank open hose line) all over the place.
IS THIS NORMAL?? My mechanic says "oh yeah, its just overfilled" but it does it EVERY TIME I go out. Is there any way to seal up this system or keep a constant cool temp both at idle, drive, and long distance? I am planning on adding an electric fan, but I can't imagine it would make it THAT much better given above. In Sacramento, CA.
Thoughts?
IS THIS NORMAL?? My mechanic says "oh yeah, its just overfilled" but it does it EVERY TIME I go out. Is there any way to seal up this system or keep a constant cool temp both at idle, drive, and long distance? I am planning on adding an electric fan, but I can't imagine it would make it THAT much better given above. In Sacramento, CA.
Thoughts?
05-13-2013, 07:44 AM
#3
My 454 wets himself too through the overflow tube on warm weather.
I did replace my water pump (with Edel Victor) last year after the old iron pump blew up. And this year it hasn't done it yet but I have only driven about 50 miles and in cool weather. But, I hope the pump fixed this.
Well, to learn something new: How do you diagnose the fan clutch?
I did replace my water pump (with Edel Victor) last year after the old iron pump blew up. And this year it hasn't done it yet but I have only driven about 50 miles and in cool weather. But, I hope the pump fixed this.
Well, to learn something new: How do you diagnose the fan clutch?
05-13-2013, 11:29 AM
#4
Melting Slicks
Here's a couple of things to check.
Make sure air is going through the radiator and not around it. That means the shroud should be in place, seals around the radiator mount/radiator are in place and in good condition, and the front air dam is in place.
Another thing that can cause those symptoms is a radiatior that isn't holding pressure. Your local autozone probably has a pressure tester you can borrow. Make sure the radiator cap is sealing correctly and holding pressure as well.
Make sure air is going through the radiator and not around it. That means the shroud should be in place, seals around the radiator mount/radiator are in place and in good condition, and the front air dam is in place.
Another thing that can cause those symptoms is a radiatior that isn't holding pressure. Your local autozone probably has a pressure tester you can borrow. Make sure the radiator cap is sealing correctly and holding pressure as well.
05-13-2013, 06:24 PM
#5
Curious, did you bore your block and how much.?
My car has AC and came with a seven blade fan, I replaced the fan clutch with HD one from paragon like 20 years ago, it never runs over 200 sitting still in 95 degree day. most of the time it's below 190 on a a 85 degree day.
had a 65 327 bored 60 over that just kept creeping up on temp.....drove me crazy
My car has AC and came with a seven blade fan, I replaced the fan clutch with HD one from paragon like 20 years ago, it never runs over 200 sitting still in 95 degree day. most of the time it's below 190 on a a 85 degree day.
had a 65 327 bored 60 over that just kept creeping up on temp.....drove me crazy
05-13-2013, 06:49 PM
#6
Here's a couple of things to check.
Make sure air is going through the radiator and not around it. That means the shroud should be in place, seals around the radiator mount/radiator are in place and in good condition, and the front air dam is in place.
Another thing that can cause those symptoms is a radiatior that isn't holding pressure. Your local autozone probably has a pressure tester you can borrow. Make sure the radiator cap is sealing correctly and holding pressure as well.
Make sure air is going through the radiator and not around it. That means the shroud should be in place, seals around the radiator mount/radiator are in place and in good condition, and the front air dam is in place.
Another thing that can cause those symptoms is a radiatior that isn't holding pressure. Your local autozone probably has a pressure tester you can borrow. Make sure the radiator cap is sealing correctly and holding pressure as well.
!you need all the little foamie do dads, there were a lot of small itms that sealed up a shroud to force the air though and not around the coils an fins. Just look at a Dr Rebuild catalog , he seems to have most of the items that came on your car.
05-13-2013, 09:14 PM
#7
Drifting
Mine does the same thing. Pees after a run. Im still breaking mine in so I havnt taken it for more than 5-7 miles, but when I stop it, I get the pee-pee on the ground too. Im just going to keep checking my coolant level. Ive recently added a modified fan shroud and a solid fan, and so far I havnt gone above 195.
05-14-2013, 05:21 AM
#8
Le Mans Master
Quick items to check and replace are the radiator cap (on expansion tank) and the fan clutch..
It's likely puking over because its running too damn hot... If its 230* running, its probably 250* when you shut it off.. That really pressures up the system and allows the coolant to escape the cap under that much pressure..
No way should that thing run that hot... Really should never get over 210*. Get a Hayden extreme duty fan clutch.. That will help with the temps... This is assuming all else is good in the system. You could also add an additional reservoir under the expansion tank (down in the cubby hole by the shark gills or egg crates) to catch anything that pukes from the expansion tank, it will suck it back into the expansion tank when it all cools down.
Make sure you have your bypass hose connected from the intake to the water pull also.
It's likely puking over because its running too damn hot... If its 230* running, its probably 250* when you shut it off.. That really pressures up the system and allows the coolant to escape the cap under that much pressure..
No way should that thing run that hot... Really should never get over 210*. Get a Hayden extreme duty fan clutch.. That will help with the temps... This is assuming all else is good in the system. You could also add an additional reservoir under the expansion tank (down in the cubby hole by the shark gills or egg crates) to catch anything that pukes from the expansion tank, it will suck it back into the expansion tank when it all cools down.
Make sure you have your bypass hose connected from the intake to the water pull also.
05-14-2013, 05:59 AM
#9
Hayden catalogue lists 2 possibilities for 70-74 454:
1. STD Duty: w/o AC #2713
2. Severe Duty: w/ AC #2799
Can the Severe Duty model be used with non AC cars also?
Specs for they duty classification:
Standard Duty Thermal
Turns fan 60-70% of shaft speed when engaged.
Disengage to 20-30% of the shaft speed
Used with lighter pitch fans. (1-1/2” of pitch).
Flat plate impeller design with 11.4 Sq. In. of working surface.
Identified by a smooth steel faceplate & thermal spring assembly on the front side.
They also have Heavy Duty which is between STD and Severe Duty but list no part number for '70 454.
Severe Duty Thermal
Turns the fan 80-90% of the shaft speed when engaged.
Turns the fan 20-30% of the shaft speed when disengaged.
Used with deeper pitch fans. (2 -1/2° of pitch).
Land and groove design with 70 Sq. In. of working area.
Larger working surface provides cooler running and longer life expectancy.
Thicker body and deep finned faceplate dissipate more heat.
Can be used in place of many heavy-duty clutches
You mean the short hose between waterpump and the intake?
1. STD Duty: w/o AC #2713
2. Severe Duty: w/ AC #2799
Can the Severe Duty model be used with non AC cars also?
Specs for they duty classification:
Standard Duty Thermal
Turns fan 60-70% of shaft speed when engaged.
Disengage to 20-30% of the shaft speed
Used with lighter pitch fans. (1-1/2” of pitch).
Flat plate impeller design with 11.4 Sq. In. of working surface.
Identified by a smooth steel faceplate & thermal spring assembly on the front side.
They also have Heavy Duty which is between STD and Severe Duty but list no part number for '70 454.
Severe Duty Thermal
Turns the fan 80-90% of the shaft speed when engaged.
Turns the fan 20-30% of the shaft speed when disengaged.
Used with deeper pitch fans. (2 -1/2° of pitch).
Land and groove design with 70 Sq. In. of working area.
Larger working surface provides cooler running and longer life expectancy.
Thicker body and deep finned faceplate dissipate more heat.
Can be used in place of many heavy-duty clutches
Originally Posted by ajrothm
Make sure you have your bypass hose connected from the intake to the water pull also.
Last edited by ToniH; 05-14-2013 at 07:35 AM.
05-14-2013, 12:15 PM
#10
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Mine used to do this I replaced the rad cap problem went away then a few months after my water pump started leaking and noticed the overflow spilling a bit. I guess if there's any leaks in the system air does go in when it gets cold then try's to get rid of the air and that's when u see some coolant in your engine bay
05-14-2013, 01:55 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
Hayden catalogue lists 2 possibilities for 70-74 454:
1. STD Duty: w/o AC #2713
2. Severe Duty: w/ AC #2799
Can the Severe Duty model be used with non AC cars also?
Specs for they duty classification:
Standard Duty Thermal
Turns fan 60-70% of shaft speed when engaged.
Disengage to 20-30% of the shaft speed
Used with lighter pitch fans. (1-1/2” of pitch).
Flat plate impeller design with 11.4 Sq. In. of working surface.
Identified by a smooth steel faceplate & thermal spring assembly on the front side.
They also have Heavy Duty which is between STD and Severe Duty but list no part number for '70 454.
Severe Duty Thermal
Turns the fan 80-90% of the shaft speed when engaged.
Turns the fan 20-30% of the shaft speed when disengaged.
Used with deeper pitch fans. (2 -1/2° of pitch).
Land and groove design with 70 Sq. In. of working area.
Larger working surface provides cooler running and longer life expectancy.
Thicker body and deep finned faceplate dissipate more heat.
Can be used in place of many heavy-duty clutches
You mean the short hose between waterpump and the intake?
1. STD Duty: w/o AC #2713
2. Severe Duty: w/ AC #2799
Can the Severe Duty model be used with non AC cars also?
Specs for they duty classification:
Standard Duty Thermal
Turns fan 60-70% of shaft speed when engaged.
Disengage to 20-30% of the shaft speed
Used with lighter pitch fans. (1-1/2” of pitch).
Flat plate impeller design with 11.4 Sq. In. of working surface.
Identified by a smooth steel faceplate & thermal spring assembly on the front side.
They also have Heavy Duty which is between STD and Severe Duty but list no part number for '70 454.
Severe Duty Thermal
Turns the fan 80-90% of the shaft speed when engaged.
Turns the fan 20-30% of the shaft speed when disengaged.
Used with deeper pitch fans. (2 -1/2° of pitch).
Land and groove design with 70 Sq. In. of working area.
Larger working surface provides cooler running and longer life expectancy.
Thicker body and deep finned faceplate dissipate more heat.
Can be used in place of many heavy-duty clutches
You mean the short hose between waterpump and the intake?
Yes the #2799 is the correct one. That is as long as you have the 7 blade fan (which I believe you should, even as a non AC car). The clutch is stiff and it will suck down some power, but it will cool the car down.
Yes the bypass hose is the little 90* jumper hose that runs from the front of the intake to the top of the water pump... It helps to evacuate the air pockets in the system and also allows for more flow then the thermostat will flow.
When my car had my Dewitts radiator, stock 7 blade fan and #2799 clutch, it would run around 170* on the hwy in 90* temps and around 185-190* idling with the AC on... Highest I ever saw idling was 205* with the AC on in 95* heat. This is with a 160* Stewart Warner race thermostat with the drilled hole, Edelbrock Victor aluminum water pump.
I eventually went to an electric fan to free up some HP and it does cool a bit better at idle, gained 15 rwhp on the dyno and not as deadly when working on the car...LOL
As long as you have a GOOD radiator, 7 blade fan and a 2799 clutch, you should stay under 200*... Make sure to run 70% distilled water/30% antifreeze, make sure you have all of the seals in the radiator/core support/shroud and have the air damn installed on the bottom.
05-14-2013, 02:07 PM
#12
Okey, thanks for your advice. 
My radiator is fresh, tunnel is there as are all the seals. And the Edelbrock Victor waterpump has less than 100 miles on it. IIRC the thermostate is 175 deg. Yes, 7 blades. And my present cap says 13lbs (Stant Lev-R-Vent 329-type).
Everybody talks about the radiator cap. I looked them up and all the vendors sell many different ones. They are #13, #15 etc. Which is the correct one for '70 454? Mine is non AC but others might have AC so if there is difference please say so. Thanks!
My radiator is fresh, tunnel is there as are all the seals. And the Edelbrock Victor waterpump has less than 100 miles on it. IIRC the thermostate is 175 deg. Yes, 7 blades. And my present cap says 13lbs (Stant Lev-R-Vent 329-type).
Everybody talks about the radiator cap. I looked them up and all the vendors sell many different ones. They are #13, #15 etc. Which is the correct one for '70 454? Mine is non AC but others might have AC so if there is difference please say so. Thanks!
Last edited by ToniH; 05-14-2013 at 02:16 PM.
05-14-2013, 02:40 PM
#13
Le Mans Master
Okey, thanks for your advice.
My radiator is fresh, tunnel is there as are all the seals. And the Edelbrock Victor waterpump has less than 100 miles on it. IIRC the thermostate is 175 deg. Yes, 7 blades. And my present cap says 13lbs (Stant Lev-R-Vent 329-type).
Everybody talks about the radiator cap. I looked them up and all the vendors sell many different ones. They are #13, #15 etc. Which is the correct one for '70 454? Mine is non AC but others might have AC so if there is difference please say so. Thanks!
My radiator is fresh, tunnel is there as are all the seals. And the Edelbrock Victor waterpump has less than 100 miles on it. IIRC the thermostate is 175 deg. Yes, 7 blades. And my present cap says 13lbs (Stant Lev-R-Vent 329-type).
Everybody talks about the radiator cap. I looked them up and all the vendors sell many different ones. They are #13, #15 etc. Which is the correct one for '70 454? Mine is non AC but others might have AC so if there is difference please say so. Thanks!
I don't have an expansion tank, I have the cap on the radiator style....but I do use a little reservoir tank hidden down by the egg crate...I notice when I shut mine off, the level will sometimes go up about 1/2 - 1" in the tank for a couple hours, then it will suck it right back down when it cools off...Reservoir style system just like the new cars use... I've never had it go over 1/2 way up the bottle though..
Then again, i have NEVER seen over 210* in my car and the only time it did that, I did it on purpose to see how long it would take to get there without the fan running.
BTW when my car still had the original 4 core radiator that was freshly rodded out and cleaned, I could not keep temps below 205* on the highway....I switched to the dewitts and it dropped to 175* in the same 92* ambient temps..
So what I mean by "good" radiator is not always just a cleaned out stocker... I run dewitts in both my vettes.... However I can't keep my C5Z cool....
05-14-2013, 03:32 PM
#14
Thanks again.
I looked it up and it seems my expansion tank is 64-67 type. But I guess it doesn't matter when discussing possible overheating issue.
Mine is like this:
And not like this like it probably was originally:
Do both accept the same kind of radiator cap?
I looked it up and it seems my expansion tank is 64-67 type. But I guess it doesn't matter when discussing possible overheating issue.
Mine is like this:
And not like this like it probably was originally:
Do both accept the same kind of radiator cap?
Last edited by ToniH; 05-14-2013 at 06:54 PM.
05-15-2013, 11:36 PM
#15
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all good advice. thanks everyone. my aluminum radiator, shroud (i dont have all the foam goodies), original fingered suicide fan, hoses, aluminum water pump, and cap are all good or new. the only thing that isn't is the fan clutch. But I think the reason I didn't replace the fan clutch as I remember it, was that the replacement didn't meet up/fit with the tipped fan blade. And isn't that the coolest part of the whole set up? Am I wrong here? Is the 2799 you speak of made so it will fit with the original tipped 7 blade? Mines an AC too (with 454).
And on that note, another question (again thanks for the help). The alternator is original but I think it needs replacing as it has a hard time starting and don't even think about trying to start it with the AC in the "on" position (despite a new/fully charged battery). Can you give suggestion for NEW replacement alternator for 1970 454 with ac? Something HEFTY given I am going to run the new fan clutch, possible electric fan if needed, the ac, and the beast of an engine.
And on that note, another question (again thanks for the help). The alternator is original but I think it needs replacing as it has a hard time starting and don't even think about trying to start it with the AC in the "on" position (despite a new/fully charged battery). Can you give suggestion for NEW replacement alternator for 1970 454 with ac? Something HEFTY given I am going to run the new fan clutch, possible electric fan if needed, the ac, and the beast of an engine.
Last edited by stefmatt; 05-16-2013 at 12:17 AM.
05-17-2013, 02:30 AM
#16
Le Mans Master
I have not fitted the 2799 clutch into an original finger style fan so I can't say 100% it will fit but it should. I know it fits on the SB 7 blade fan for AC cars, I was using that on my BB for a long time. I don't see why it wouldn't fit the BB finger tip fan unless the hub hole is smaller on the fan...(which I doubt).
As for the alternator, you can have yours rebuilt or buy a new one. I never had much luck with "part store" alternators.
I bought an alternator from www.alternatorparts.com, also known as Quick Start. They build custom and OEM style alternators and starters. Good quality stock replacements and high output stuff as well.
Here is the list of 10si alternators(stock size) that will fit your car:
http://alternatorparts.com/10si-all-in-one.html
I use one of there CS144HO alternators.. It's 145 amps, 90 amps at idle. It has been very reliable and has a ton of power for all electronics... It's probably way over kill for you and it won't fit your factory alternator bracket without modding it.
They can probably build you an alternator that looks stock and in the factory size case that will make an honest 80 amps reliably, that would be more then enough for your needs.
As for the alternator, you can have yours rebuilt or buy a new one. I never had much luck with "part store" alternators.
I bought an alternator from www.alternatorparts.com, also known as Quick Start. They build custom and OEM style alternators and starters. Good quality stock replacements and high output stuff as well.
Here is the list of 10si alternators(stock size) that will fit your car:
http://alternatorparts.com/10si-all-in-one.html
I use one of there CS144HO alternators.. It's 145 amps, 90 amps at idle. It has been very reliable and has a ton of power for all electronics... It's probably way over kill for you and it won't fit your factory alternator bracket without modding it.
They can probably build you an alternator that looks stock and in the factory size case that will make an honest 80 amps reliably, that would be more then enough for your needs.
Last edited by ajrothm; 05-17-2013 at 02:38 AM.
