BacaBill

Hi again Forum GuRus,
I'm getting all too close to getting a 383 Stroker for the '79 4spd & thinking about making the EFI conversion at the same time. I've seen the EZ-EFI from Comp, looks decent but expensive. Last nite I went to PepBoys to get some brake fluid & saw a MSD system that is supposedly easier to hookup (a few sensors right on the thrrottle body so less connections) that looks nice too, & cheaper. Anyone care to give their thoughts, good or bad?
Thx in advance,,, Bill A.

Garys 68

Depends on why you want to add efi. Too many expect adding efi will turn an earlier gen SBC into a modern LSx motor.
Something I wrote for another thread on adding efi.

You could probably put together a GM TB efi for a couple hundred bucks. But you wont get anywhere near the performance or gas mileage of a modern engine.The engine, cam, heads, efi, spark, gearing, etc are all designed to work together.
The stock LS heads flow better than the older hi performance heads, that's how they make hp. Carb applications on LS motors can easily make more hp than efi because of this.
The cam design, intake, spark control, efi are designed to generate high cylinder pressures at low rpm. Even a 400hp LS cam uses 116 LSA. That combined with gearing (under 2:1 overall) gives you the 400 hp with 25+mpg. Sequential port injection was designed to give optimal fuel delivery at these low rpms.
More recently things like variable valve timing have been added to optimize both aspects. Increased gears in the trans allows for lower shifts to increase mileage. Active fuel management to shut down cylinders. Now direct fuel injection in the new LT1 allows higher compression to make more hp and torque throughout the rpm range, increasing both hp and mileage.
If you bolt on a $2k efi you'll probably get a little better mileage than a poorly tuned Holley or worn Qjet, but don't expect it to turn it into an LS motor.

MrJlr

See, that's good info.
I'm sticking with a good old carb

carriljc

and I think it is quite nice. I installed it about 9 years ago....HOWEVER if I was to do it today, I would just jump into a LS motor.

I like my RamJet 350 and it has very few miles on it. The EFI that came with it (MEFI-3) let's it run well, but it isn't even as sophisticated as the GM computers that were in stock cars at that time. I installed a GM 1227730 ECM and played around with burning chips for a while...that was fun (for a while as I said). I am now looking into installing a EZ EFI 2.0.....sounds like fun and it would be self-tuning.

Nevertheless, it's cheaper for me to get at the conversion and adapt the EZ EFI to the Ramjet than installing a whole new EZ EFI with the whole throttle body assembly...which is a bit more expensive.

ANYWAY, I was helping a friend of mine with his LS engine in his 56 Ford Pickup last week.....I tell you, if you are going to put in fuel injection, I would just go for a LSx engine....it's 9 years after my Ramjet and they're available all over and there is a lot of knowledge about installation and about adapting to older vehicles.

Gordonm

EFI is so superior to an old carb. The drivability factor is so much better. As for HP a properly tuned carb or EFI will make about the same HP. But for drivability EFI wins hands down. I wrenched with carbs for years very successfully but once I went to EFI I sold all carb stuff. Would not go back. I am now running an LS motor.

Corey_68

I will NEVER own a carburetored engine again...

rosros

If you have a little patience, check out Quick Fuels efi called Quick Fuel QFI. There is already a waiting list though. The injectors can be swapped for larger units for greater than 500hp applications.

427Hotrod

Holley has a similar system these days. I've done several including the entry level TBI version as well as the higher end Dominator versions. Those systems use same base computer and allow you to let it tune itself after selecting from various base tunes or go completely wild and adjust everything from your hearts content. You can do boost, nitrous, methanol, electric fans, fuel pumps etc etc control also.

Read the instructions on those "returnless" systems. They usually recommend a return line pretty quickly for a number of reasons. The OEM's do it with pumps and computers designed for it and to make a long warranty. The return line, while a PITA is usually a real good idea.

Here's a couple of articles I've done on Holley's systems.

http://www.carsandparts.com/Articles...ishly-simple-1

http://www.carsandparts.com/Articles...ody-experience


JIM

Bullshark

Gary,,
I think you meant "Carb applications on LS motors can make more hp than efi on Earlier Gen SBC motors because of this......right? All things equal, it is not true that a carb application makes more hp than efi. Maybe a properly tuned carb can equal the output of an efi application at one point in the power curve. (say WOT at 5000rpm), but that falls way short of all points of operation across rpm, load, temp, etc. etc. That's were we operate 99% of the time. I wouldn't opt for TBI, Go Multiport, Holley's new EFI systems i.e. Avenger, HP or Dominator are the best for the money IMHO. You can use GM stock efi systems for much less $$, but you better keep the motor close to the stock application. Mail order tunes on modified engines are like my putting in golf! Lag it up to the hole as close as you can and take a gimmie. By the time you pay for all the EFI-Live stuff including emulators so you can adequately tune a GM stock computer, you will have as much or more money sunk into the project as if you just went with aftermarket Holley in the first place.

I think you might have misunderstood Gary, His point was that going with an LS approach will yield better results than the old GEN SBC with EFI. That is a general statement without getting into details of what aftermarket old GEN SBC mods have been made.

Bullshark

Shark Racer

I've tuned LS engines and carbureted engines. Considering how much I drive the 78, switching to EFI makes no sense, cost wise.

If it was a DD, maybe. On the same token, though, if I'm trying to modernize a 35 year old car, there's a lot more than just fuel metering that needs to be done.

Garys 68

My point was the heads flow really well, more than the stock LS1 cam and intake support. Easy to get big hp bolting a car style intake and a carb. You can do the same with aftermarket efi but it does get expensive.
And you are correct on the second point. Both my 68 vette and 72 olds are LS conversions. For a few bucks more than bolting a $2k efi to a tired old motor, you could set up an iron block LSx.
With a new stroker, the OP should probably stick with a carb. Bolt on TB efi isn't really cost effective.

zwede

I never understood the "cost effective" argument. Is it cost effective to repaint the car? Re-chrome the bumpers? Why does EFI have to be cost effective? It's a cool mod that makes the car more driveable.

diehrd

I had no carb issues to speak of , I tuned my carb well and it ran good. (ZZ430)

I just did the Fast EZ EFI 1.0 ( Not 2.0 thats one ugly mother and if I want to support 1200hp I will run dual 1.0 )

The difference was significant enough that the 1829.00 I paid for my kit was well worth it. A value that easily pays for it self in my smile every time I drive her.

No worry tuning , no adjustments , no cams , squirters , no a/f adjusting and on and on with a carb.


Mechanical VS Computer

Thats all I need to say ,, on every , and I mean every tiny fraction of an inch you move that go pedal the computer wins . Every bit of gas is metered and pumped in the correct quantity at the correct time under any driving condition ... That makes driving with theses new EFI systems way better then a carb.. AND where a dyno says a carb makes as much power ( True ) it cant show you real world driving differences.

Atomic looks good , I used EZ EFI because I like its look and because I can double them up making for a really tough look. Which i hope to do when I go to sbc 427 next season..

BacaBill

Ya know, I was actually thinking of staying with the Edelbrock 750 double pump that came on the car but then you reminded me of all the tuning, jetting, changing springs, having to feather the gas to keep it idling when cold. EFI it is, as long as the money holds out. That's a beautiful setup ya have. How much in total was that? Is there a pusher pump in the trunk or,, I saw one setup that has a reserve tank up near the engine somewhere & that's where the pusher is. The engine-mounted mechanical pump still pulls the fuel from the tank but only keeps the reserve tank full.
Thx all,, Bill A

lionelhutz

As long as you're willing to put the time in to install it and get it working properly then quickly find you'll never go back to a carb and mechanical distributor.

I think you could switch your car to use the '82 pickup and in-tank pump parts. The tank you are mentioning is often called a surge tank and that would work too with a little plumbing.

diehrd

I used the 1982 Sending unit because it was made for an in tank fuel pump , as I understand it , early model EFI the gas tanks had no baffles and the sending unit for our 1982 cars places the pump at the bottom of the tank. My habit has always been 1/4 tank left fill her up , car is 34 years old so I was always worried my gauge was or could be off .. I still fill up at 1/4 tank and always will.

I did have to run a return line so I had to use AN fittings to plumb it into the sending unit but as I understand it the MSD unit needs no return line if your not running mega horse power. So going that route the in tank set up would make it easier then what i have done.

ssenay72

Im in the process of putting a holley terminator on my zz383. Well its on I just need my gas tank. It really was fairly easy to do. Truthfully it can be done in a weekend. Havent fired it yet obviously but on another car (69 Camaro 540 bbc) we put a holley hp multiport on and wow was a difference. I actually gained some power and we tuned that carb over and over again. Well those days are done. You do have to tune efi don't get me wrong and tinker with it here and there but its a lot easier and less parts to change " testing ". Im setting up the terminator to control timing also the same way we did the hp efi on the Camaro. Again no mechanical crap to deal with to change the timing, same software will do it all. Speaking of timing ive also used the msd 6530 box that allows timing controlled through a laptop also (distributor locked down) and it works very well also. Just as an option if you wanted to go that route. Not sure if the other systems out there offer timing control or not.

427Hotrod

That is sweet looking!

JIM

c3_dk

This is how I made my fuel return in my 69

Shark Racer

The 1/4 tank rule is fine as long as you're not intending to turn the car or accelerate hard on a 1/4 tank. If you're planning on a road race or drag strip car, you really should have a baffle so that the pump is covered when the fuel is sloshed around.