canadavette4

Looking for a workable solution for the following combination of parts.

a) 350 non-roller block.
b) retro roller cam.
c) timing cover stiff enough to prevent the roller cam from deflecting.
d) high volume water pump.
e) 8" balancer.

Generally, the timing cover has been the restriction to finding a
solution as the c3 vette pump is so close to the timing cover.
The closest possible solution that I am aware of is a Cloyes aluminum timing cover. Problem is, the Cloyes cover is not supposed to work
with a high volume water pump or an 8" balancer. I would like the
option to have both.

Thanking all in advance for suggestions

MelWff

this article mentions a special water pump from Edelbrock that presses on the sheet metal cover or the aluminum covers

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...ic_roller_cam/

jcuprisi

Here are some pictures of the Cloyes cover, 8" Fluid damper and a stock aluminum water pump. The pump barely touches the cover. I don't know how much bigger a high pressure pump is.

John

canadavette4

We are talking close fit!

I guess I should ask about Edelbrock part# 8812 (my car is 1979 which uses the really short pump) and see how it differs to the stock pump.
Question please, do you have a part # for the Fluid damper?

bluedawg

I used the stock pump and had to grind the bolts on the rear plate down some. I used the comp two piece, nice but pricey.

canadavette4

Followup;
Has anyone tried the Milodon thrust re-enforced cover, part # 65555?

http://www.milodon.com/timing-covers/timing-covers.asp

This with the Edelbrock water pump might be a combo.

REELAV8R

I don't have the high flow water pump but otherwise same set up.
First I had to grind down some of the heads of the bolts holding on the back cover of the water pump as they interfered with the timing chain cover and stuck out quite a bit farther than the back plate on the water pump.

I dimpled my cover until I got .005" clearance or so between the cover and cam button. Used clay to measure the distance.
There is some space between the back cover on the water pump and the timing cover. I measured that space and got a piece of sheet metal that would fit in between the two.
I couldn't get a piece with the exact dimension I needed so had to adjust the thickness of the water pump gaskets to get it perfect in the end.

Then I roughed up the surface of the timing cover and the dimple. I used liquid steel to fill the dimple and used JB weld to glue the sheet metal to the front of the timing cover. Clamped and let that set up overnight. Then re- assembled and bolted on the water pump. measured the distance with the gasket I had did a little math and figured I would need about .035" of gasket to get the final dimension I needed for the timing cover to just touch the back of the water pump.

At O'reilly's they have .025" gasket material. I cut out and doubled up the gasket material and after crush it measured .037", Just about perfect.

Put it all together ran it and re-torqued the water pump and now I can just barely slide a .001" feeler gauge between the timing cover and the water pump plate. Painted the sheet metal black (engine block is black) to prevent rusting.
A bit of a pain to do, but it seems to be working. Before this I was having some cam walk issues and it was causing the distributor drive bushing to wear since it was being thrust forward with the cam.
Otherwise spend the $$ and get a purpose built timing cover.
some pics of the process.

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speedreed8

a) 350 non-roller block.
b) retro roller cam.
c) timing cover stiff enough to prevent the roller cam from deflecting.
d) high volume water pump.
e) 8" balancer

a: stock 350 '79 4 bolt main block, bored -030"
B. Howards roller cam, your choice i used http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hr...5-12/overview/
c:canton racing products reinforced cover: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ctr-21-900/overview/
d: i used a stock unit from NAPA for a corvette.
e: balancer 8": use this one.i started with the stock one, but changed later. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-161358/overview/

all working great so far, also used summitracing alum. roller rocker arms. dart heads.IE 180. howards pushrods.

MotorHead

I have CVR timing cover that fits under my 8812 Edelbrock Victor water pump problem is the price $250 for the timing cover and $210 for the water pump which is high flow.




It ahs a fre neat features, it is 2 piece and you can change cams without disturbing the oil pan gasket and the hole in the center is for a dial indicator, once you set it forget it just screw the plug in.

427Hotrod

Unless you just want a trick cover....The cam isn't going to go crazy on the cover. I've run stock covers for years with no issues. Use one of the nylon buttons and it will be fine.

Stock GM is pretty tough...import stuff maybe not so much.

JIM

canadavette4

Just want to say thanks to all for a wide range of ideas and choices.

Speedreed8 indirectly has an interesting point about 8" balancers.
There are different thickness choices out there. Chevy for one offered
2 or 3 different widths. Perhaps that can affect the fit issue in such a tight setup
like the c3 vette.

REELAV8R

I read many reply's such as this and so I thought so too until I had a problem. The GM cover was much more flexible than the one in my photos. But even the one in the photo was flexing giving me problems with cam walk.

cv67

With 427 hotrod
Think milodon makes a stock type cover with a slight reinforcement
Dont the vette water pumps have thehole to put the setscrew through in case?

Run a generic aluminum cover and had to grind both on it and the water pump.Make life easy on yourself and skip these.

garygnu

I believe the edelbrock water pump has a tab on the bottom of the pump housing that is drilled and taped .you can use a stud to reinforce the timing cover so it don't flex too much.

Solid LT1

Edelbrock pump has cam stop provisions on it to allow a stud to be run into timing cover for reinforcement. Like Jim says, nylon cam button and stock cover. The Edelbrock pump has a 1/8" thick back plate for the impeller cover this can be a source of problems with mant timing covers. Milodon makes a USA sheet metal timing cover that is a decent part.

427Hotrod

Hmmnnn...well can't argue if it was happening. I'm not saying you can't flex the GM one if you pry forward on the cam...just that I haven't seen it be an issue in a running engine. I set them at .005" or less and don't see that change later.

That reinforced chrome cover sure looks like it could control anything...that's for sure!

And again. most of the covers you buy out there are thin cheap imports. Not the same stuff. Heck...maybe GM thinned them in later years? I dunno.

What do you think was causing it to put so much pressure on the cover? I usually a run a lot of oil pump and pressure...so that shouldn't be a big deal. Maybe some lifter bores off a little causing cam to screw forward?

With all that said, I've also used the inexpensive cast aluminum covers on big blocks and they do great also.

That Cloyes cover shown above is a real sweet piece. I've used a lot of them and they make things easy!


JIM

REELAV8R

I'm with you, I really don't know why it was walking and apparently with quite a bit of force, but it's not going anywhere now.
It could only go so far given the double roller chain, but it was far enough to pull on the distributor bushing and cause wear. I could also see the button had some grey coloring on it from spinning on the inside of the cover.
Maybe like you said, lifter bores are off a little, core shift?

Agreed that Cloyes cover is sure purdy! I may use one on my 406 since it is going to have a roller too.

Solid LT1

If you have a roller cam that wants to move on you, there is a potential that there is a lifter bore not perpendicular to the cam causing "cam walk" Isky cams used to have a great write up in their catalog about this subject....there I go again dating myself......I used to work at a NAPA parts store with a double decker set of paper catalogs about 6feet long

jb78L-82

I am in the same boat! About to pull the trigger on a howard retrofit roller cam with AFR 180 65CC heads and have figured out most of the nuances with the checking push rod length and setting the cam endplay but I am worried about this whole timing chain cover issue with my Stewart Stage 2 aluminum water pump. I want to use the Cloyes 2 piece timing cover with the Stewart Stage 2 water pump BUT everything I read says that that it will not work without some custom fitting. Cloyes says that you can use a SBC short water pump with their timing cover in their product description but reality appears to be different. I have written to Cloyes directly and i am awaiting their response. It seems that if I use replacement round hex bolts on the back of the water pump and maybe grind off some of the aluminum on the back of the water pump/water pump back cover, I will be able to use the Cloyes cover. Is that correct or the Stewart pump will still not fit? thoughts?

Also, I will be reusing my stock harmonic balancer since it has not rotated (changed the timing chain about 1.5 years ago to a comp cams double roller chain-which I plan to reuse). The chain has about 500 miles on it. Will I be able to still use the stock timing pointer plate with the cloyes cover and stock balancer?

I wanted to use a retrofit roller cam since I thought I would eliminate some headaches but it seems that I am just replacing one set of headaches for another by using the roller cam!

resdoggie

I went with a retro HR last winter. No regrets and the only downside is the extra cost. I used this cover : http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...make/chevrolet with a Stewart's Stage II pump. I doubled up on the pump gaskets using Felpro's. I have the thickness of a sheet of paper clearance between the pump and cover. That's all you need. The pump also has a hole for a screw to rest against the cover but I went with a cam button. The Howards timing set is a nice piece with an integral block thrust bearing: http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...4300/overview/. I used their .560"/.560" 280/286 cam, composite dist'r gear and fuel pump rod, roller lifters and push rods. Everything went together as it should and no dicking around trying to get parts to fit.