B&M hi tek cooler
03-06-2014, 04:15 PM
#1
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
B&M hi tek cooler
I'm running this cooler as an engine cooler. I have some issues with it in the sense that it causes a pressure drop at higher rpm. Anyone encounter this ? How did you solve it.
03-06-2014, 04:43 PM
#2
Le Mans Master
I don't have any experience with running an oil cooler for the engine oil, but it sounds like the cooler is presenting a restriction and a bypass line around the cooler might be the answer. Make the bypass line smaller in diameter than the supply for the cooler and then most of your oil will still go through the cooler.
Or you could get a cooler with more capacity, greater flow capacity.
Or you could be running 20W-50 and the 50 wt oil has a hard time getting through the cooler quickly.
Is the cooler on the supply side of the pump or the return side? Maybe move it to the return side if it's on the supply side.
Or you could get a cooler with more capacity, greater flow capacity.
Or you could be running 20W-50 and the 50 wt oil has a hard time getting through the cooler quickly.
Is the cooler on the supply side of the pump or the return side? Maybe move it to the return side if it's on the supply side.
03-07-2014, 06:04 AM
#3
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Cooler is on the supply side. This is a wet sump. So there is no possibility putting it in the return side.
A larger cooler is difficult. The current one is already 13.5X9X1,5" without the fan. I cannot fit a bigger one up front without either restricting the airflow through the rad or without the hood touching it when opening.
I was thinking about the same thing with a thinner line as bypass but putting in a check valve as well. In essence the valve would only open when there is a pressure differential present.
A larger cooler is difficult. The current one is already 13.5X9X1,5" without the fan. I cannot fit a bigger one up front without either restricting the airflow through the rad or without the hood touching it when opening.
I was thinking about the same thing with a thinner line as bypass but putting in a check valve as well. In essence the valve would only open when there is a pressure differential present.
03-07-2014, 10:35 AM
#4
Le Mans Master
I was thinking about the same thing with a thinner line as bypass but putting in a check valve as well. In essence the valve would only open when there is a pressure differential present.
03-07-2014, 12:42 PM
#5
Drifting
How is the cooler positioned? Any pics?
If you have the fitting side angled too far down you could have an air pocket in the cooler.
If you have the fitting side angled too far down you could have an air pocket in the cooler.
03-07-2014, 01:19 PM
#6
Team Owner
I used to have a dedicated track car. It used an adapter where the spin on oil filter normally goes. It has supply and return AN steel braided tubing that went through a single filter then through the cooler and back to the motor. It used a thermal switch that only allowed oil flow through the cooler at 200 F degrees or something like that.
If you are loosing oil pressure at high rpm. I would wonder if your oil pump is sucking the pan dry. I would add another quart of oil
My solid roller 383 has drilled out to .100 oil restrictors in the back of the block. It limits the amount of oil going to the top end and gives priority to the crank and rods. that also makes for faster return to the wet sump.
I also use 7-8 quart systems
If you are loosing oil pressure at high rpm. I would wonder if your oil pump is sucking the pan dry. I would add another quart of oil
My solid roller 383 has drilled out to .100 oil restrictors in the back of the block. It limits the amount of oil going to the top end and gives priority to the crank and rods. that also makes for faster return to the wet sump.
I also use 7-8 quart systems
03-07-2014, 02:37 PM
#7
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
The cooler is mounted with the fittings on top as should be. There is no problem in the mounting position.
As for sucking the pan dry. I did a lot of testing. Last tests were with all the accessoires disconnected and the pressure held up fine at high rpm. So it has to do with the accessoires.
There are only a couple of things that can cause a restriction : the oil thermostat, the cooler or the accusump check valve.
Due to the fact that it only exhibited a pressure drop when the oil was warm and was sent 100% through the cooler, I seriously suspect the cooler.
As for sucking the pan dry. I did a lot of testing. Last tests were with all the accessoires disconnected and the pressure held up fine at high rpm. So it has to do with the accessoires.
There are only a couple of things that can cause a restriction : the oil thermostat, the cooler or the accusump check valve.
Due to the fact that it only exhibited a pressure drop when the oil was warm and was sent 100% through the cooler, I seriously suspect the cooler.
03-07-2014, 03:53 PM
#8
Le Mans Master
would it be possible to temporarily hose clamp a pipe in place of the cooler or something similar to eliminate the cooler all together for testing purposes and see if the oil pressure is recovered?
I assumed from your first post you're describing a reduction in pressure not a complete intermittent loss or erratic fluctuation of pressure.
I assumed from your first post you're describing a reduction in pressure not a complete intermittent loss or erratic fluctuation of pressure.
03-07-2014, 04:44 PM
#9
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
would it be possible to temporarily hose clamp a pipe in place of the cooler or something similar to eliminate the cooler all together for testing purposes and see if the oil pressure is recovered?
I assumed from your first post you're describing a reduction in pressure not a complete intermittent loss or erratic fluctuation of pressure.
I assumed from your first post you're describing a reduction in pressure not a complete intermittent loss or erratic fluctuation of pressure.
It is a reduction in pressure that grows when rpm increases once above 5000 rpm.
03-07-2014, 04:58 PM
#10
Team Owner
would it be possible to temporarily hose clamp a pipe in place of the cooler or something similar to eliminate the cooler all together for testing purposes and see if the oil pressure is recovered?
I assumed from your first post you're describing a reduction in pressure not a complete intermittent loss or erratic fluctuation of pressure.
I assumed from your first post you're describing a reduction in pressure not a complete intermittent loss or erratic fluctuation of pressure.
An auto tanny type cooler is not meant to be used with much thicker engine oil. I would say that at higher rpm the flow becomes impeaded because of the larger volume.
engine oil coolers have more area in the finned tubing so they don't restrict the flow.
03-07-2014, 05:08 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
Most every B&M cooler is made for an auto tranny and yes they are desined to slow the oil flow down so that it has time to cool. auto tranny fluid is also not much thicker than water when it is hot.
An auto tanny type cooler is not meant to be used with much thicker engine oil. I would say that at higher rpm the flow becomes impeaded because of the larger volume.
engine oil coolers have more area in the finned tubing so they don't restrict the flow.
An auto tanny type cooler is not meant to be used with much thicker engine oil. I would say that at higher rpm the flow becomes impeaded because of the larger volume.
engine oil coolers have more area in the finned tubing so they don't restrict the flow.
+1
Everything he ^^^ said is correct. You need to go to a true oil cooler. I use an Earls 19 row cooler with -10an inlet and outlet and -10 hoses to the engine. I actually gained oil pressure with this setup due to lower oil temps..(25-30* lower temps on average)..
That b&m cooler you have is a great cooler for a tranny but not for oil.. Way too restrictive.
03-07-2014, 05:43 PM
#12
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Most every B&M cooler is made for an auto tranny and yes they are desined to slow the oil flow down so that it has time to cool. auto tranny fluid is also not much thicker than water when it is hot.
An auto tanny type cooler is not meant to be used with much thicker engine oil. I would say that at higher rpm the flow becomes impeaded because of the larger volume.
engine oil coolers have more area in the finned tubing so they don't restrict the flow.
An auto tanny type cooler is not meant to be used with much thicker engine oil. I would say that at higher rpm the flow becomes impeaded because of the larger volume.
engine oil coolers have more area in the finned tubing so they don't restrict the flow.
http://www.bmracing.com/products/702...90-cfm-rating/
I agree that engine oil is thicker.
Problem is that in front of the radiator nothing much will fit if you still want to be able to open the hood. Due to the already marginal cooling air the vette already has, I wanted to use a fan. This one just about fit in front of the rad.
03-07-2014, 06:00 PM
#13
Racer
Website says engine oil as well.
http://www.bmracing.com/products/702...90-cfm-rating/
I agree that engine oil is thicker.
Problem is that in front of the radiator nothing much will fit if you still want to be able to open the hood. Due to the already marginal cooling air the vette already has, I wanted to use a fan. This one just about fit in front of the rad.
http://www.bmracing.com/products/702...90-cfm-rating/
I agree that engine oil is thicker.
Problem is that in front of the radiator nothing much will fit if you still want to be able to open the hood. Due to the already marginal cooling air the vette already has, I wanted to use a fan. This one just about fit in front of the rad.
03-07-2014, 06:32 PM
#16
Safety Car
Fluids cool better the faster they move , I doubt a company reduces its flow hoping it will cool better. Usually the coolers are dual purpose trans fluid and motor oil.
Someone said add oil , that makes more sense then it may appear and should be looked at closer.
Someone said add oil , that makes more sense then it may appear and should be looked at closer.
03-09-2014, 03:43 PM
#17
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
that was already tried. More and less oil. No effect.
03-09-2014, 03:54 PM
#18
Le Mans Master
It could also be a connector (s) that has a smaller diameter than the tubes in the cooler or hoses being used and they are presenting a restriction to flow.
03-10-2014, 04:47 AM
#19
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Well, if it's not the filter, the only other thing in there that can cause it is the accusump check valve. However the pressure drop only seems to appear when the circuit towards the rad is 100% open. The check valve is common both below and above the oil thermostat opening point.
03-23-2014, 07:24 AM
#20
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Coming back to this.
After I first have connected the engine directly to and from the oil filter, that seemed to have cured the problem. I then connected the oil circuit to and from the cooler and accusump back in, but I put the oil cooler out of the circuit by inserting a nipple in between the input and return line of the cooler.
I then got the pressure drop problem again. It seems to point to the Canton one way valve in there.
Just to let you guys know.
After I first have connected the engine directly to and from the oil filter, that seemed to have cured the problem. I then connected the oil circuit to and from the cooler and accusump back in, but I put the oil cooler out of the circuit by inserting a nipple in between the input and return line of the cooler.
I then got the pressure drop problem again. It seems to point to the Canton one way valve in there.
Just to let you guys know.