Synthetic vs Standard gear oil
02-13-2015, 07:45 AM
#81
Le Mans Master
These discussions about synthetic oil (gear including engine oil etc) versus conventional oils are borderline laughable at this juncture in time since synthetic oils are now used everywhere, are proven superior to conventional oils, and have personally stood the test of time in all my automotive applications, lawn tract, snowblower, generator, etc-everything now for over 25 years in all my equipment-I have not used a conventional oil for over 20 years. The only failure has been in a lawn tractor transaxle which ran…drum roll…conventional oil. As 63mako has stated concerning the backward compatibility of the SAE ratings-which is 100% correct-and the ridiculousness of quoting from 30-40 year old owners manuals that fail to mention synthetics-THEY DID NOT EXIST BACK 30-40 years ago-so don't expect to see a recommendation to use a synthetic.Use what oil you want but please stop spreading misinformation that synthetics are bad for your differential or not compatible-total hogwash...
02-13-2015, 10:51 AM
#82
Im going to dip my toe in the quagmire. I probably shouldn't but ehh.
We recommend (1) synthetic and (1) non-synthetic in our gearboxes. We used to recommend other brands, but they changed their formulations (cost cutting, extended life...who knows). Its not that ALL synthetics are better than ALL conventionals. You need the RIGHT synthetic or conventional for the job. I get headaches from both camps. Some synthetics or conventionals don't have the right coefficient of friction (CoF) to work with our clutches (synchronizers).
What scares us is the mfg changing a formulation that works for our bronze ring tech, because modern gearboxes use lined rings and we can't (cone angles for lined rings and bronze rings are different). So in that respect, we're like a flat tappet camshaft; the majority of the industry is catering to a similar but fundamentally different OEM based product.
If you choose to use a conventional oil, change it more often. Its hard for us to get people to change gearbox oil (Im sure most diff guys will say the same LOL). Its not just about how much "life" is left in the oil. You want to get the "swarf" (little bits of metal and clutch material) out of the system, so they aren't passed through your geartrain. Also, as oils age out, they can create acidic compounds, that can shorten the life of some of your soft parts. Lastly, its one of the few ways we as a user can get a clue to the overall condition of our gearing. Magnetic drainplugs help too, but not all the swarf is magnetic so changing the lube is cheap insurance and sound practice.
We recommend (1) synthetic and (1) non-synthetic in our gearboxes. We used to recommend other brands, but they changed their formulations (cost cutting, extended life...who knows). Its not that ALL synthetics are better than ALL conventionals. You need the RIGHT synthetic or conventional for the job. I get headaches from both camps. Some synthetics or conventionals don't have the right coefficient of friction (CoF) to work with our clutches (synchronizers).
What scares us is the mfg changing a formulation that works for our bronze ring tech, because modern gearboxes use lined rings and we can't (cone angles for lined rings and bronze rings are different). So in that respect, we're like a flat tappet camshaft; the majority of the industry is catering to a similar but fundamentally different OEM based product.
If you choose to use a conventional oil, change it more often. Its hard for us to get people to change gearbox oil (Im sure most diff guys will say the same LOL). Its not just about how much "life" is left in the oil. You want to get the "swarf" (little bits of metal and clutch material) out of the system, so they aren't passed through your geartrain. Also, as oils age out, they can create acidic compounds, that can shorten the life of some of your soft parts. Lastly, its one of the few ways we as a user can get a clue to the overall condition of our gearing. Magnetic drainplugs help too, but not all the swarf is magnetic so changing the lube is cheap insurance and sound practice.
02-13-2015, 11:00 AM
#83
Le Mans Master
Im going to dip my toe in the quagmire. I probably shouldn't but ehh.
We recommend (1) synthetic and (1) non-synthetic in our gearboxes. We used to recommend other brands, but they changed their formulations (cost cutting, extended life...who knows). Its not that ALL synthetics are better than ALL conventionals. You need the RIGHT synthetic or conventional for the job. I get headaches from both camps. Some synthetics or conventionals don't have the right coefficient of friction (CoF) to work with our clutches (synchronizers).
What scares us is the mfg changing a formulation that works for our bronze ring tech, because modern gearboxes use lined rings and we can't (cone angles for lined rings and bronze rings are different). So in that respect, we're like a flat tappet camshaft; the majority of the industry is catering to a similar but fundamentally different OEM based product.
If you choose to use a conventional oil, change it more often. Its hard for us to get people to change gearbox oil (Im sure most diff guys will say the same LOL). Its not just about how much "life" is left in the oil. You want to get the "swarf" (little bits of metal and clutch material) out of the system, so they aren't passed through your geartrain. Also, as oils age out, they can create acidic compounds, that can shorten the life of some of your soft parts. Lastly, its one of the few ways we as a user can get a clue to the overall condition of our gearing. Magnetic drainplugs help too, but not all the swarf is magnetic so changing the lube is cheap insurance and sound practice.
We recommend (1) synthetic and (1) non-synthetic in our gearboxes. We used to recommend other brands, but they changed their formulations (cost cutting, extended life...who knows). Its not that ALL synthetics are better than ALL conventionals. You need the RIGHT synthetic or conventional for the job. I get headaches from both camps. Some synthetics or conventionals don't have the right coefficient of friction (CoF) to work with our clutches (synchronizers).
What scares us is the mfg changing a formulation that works for our bronze ring tech, because modern gearboxes use lined rings and we can't (cone angles for lined rings and bronze rings are different). So in that respect, we're like a flat tappet camshaft; the majority of the industry is catering to a similar but fundamentally different OEM based product.
If you choose to use a conventional oil, change it more often. Its hard for us to get people to change gearbox oil (Im sure most diff guys will say the same LOL). Its not just about how much "life" is left in the oil. You want to get the "swarf" (little bits of metal and clutch material) out of the system, so they aren't passed through your geartrain. Also, as oils age out, they can create acidic compounds, that can shorten the life of some of your soft parts. Lastly, its one of the few ways we as a user can get a clue to the overall condition of our gearing. Magnetic drainplugs help too, but not all the swarf is magnetic so changing the lube is cheap insurance and sound practice.