PeteL46

Hi everybody. Rainy day in CT. 2nd time my car's been wet since 1992.

Here goes. . .
Back in June I had my 70 sb, power steering aligned incorrectly. I posted the info in a thread titled "Alignment help (pics)". I received a lot of support and I thank you. In that thread I found out my car sat to high; it has since been corrected. Below are the specs a forum member supplied, they mimic the AIM which I brought with me the first time.

Front
camber: -0.5 dgr
caster: +2.5 deg
Toe: 1/8 in.

Rear
Camber: -0.75
Toe: 1/8 in

1st question; are the toe spec pos. or neg? I assume it's pos.
2nd; is the pos or neg measured from the front of the tires or the rear?The AIM appears to shows neg from the front?

Fast forward to today.
I had it re-aligned to the above specs, or so I thought, it still wanders. When I arrive home I called and spoke with the owner, he explained that first off he's no mechanic and his front end guy went home. He proceeded to tell me that the C3's camber and caster are tied to the same adjustment and this is as good as it gets (his alignment guy is calling me on Monday). Can the above individual specs be obtained? I find it hard to believe they can't be met. Also should right and left side be somewhat close/equal?
Here are the specs after today's alignment.

Front
Camber: left 0.8 deg right 0.6
Caster: 2.3 deg 1.9
Toe: -0.16 -0.15

Rear
Camber: left -0.8 deg right -0.8
Toe 0.14 0.18

What do you think?

The car feels very loose above 50/60 mph.
Does anyone know a good alignment shop near Litchfield, CT?

Any help is greatly appreciated.
Regards,
PeteL46

dugsgms74

Negative toe in the front is the major problem with the lack of stabiity while the caster split is gonna make it drift right. Ideally, youd want the most caster you can dial into it with a bit more on the right to overcome road crown. Without seeing the current shim stack out front it would be hard to tell whether or not you'll be able to attain the caster and camber you want but I find it very hard to believe that he cant get front toe right. The rear looks good and thats the hard part so he should consider himself lucky. Lots of alignment techs dont want to mess with the shims if they can avoid it but sometimes you just have no choice, you have to play around with the shims. Take it back, at the very least he should fix the toe, what did you pay for the alignment?

PeteL46

Negative toe in the front is the major problem . . . Do I want neg or pos?
So the 1/8 in toe is understood that it's neg? if so how would you differentiate from the front spec and rear?
The alignment was $85.00 but after it was done (the first time) they said they would have charge more knowing how long it took.
I took photos of the shim packs and loaded into photobucket. . can't remember how to load them into thread.

dugsgms74

If Im reading it correctly you have negative toe(toe-out) in the front and positive toe(toe-in) in the rear. For a street driven car you want positive toe in the front as well as the rear.

PeteL46

Thank you; so as an overhead view the front of the rear tires are aiming inward towards the transmission?

"Shim packs" I have only 2 to 3 shims in each of the 4 locations.

Dodosmike

This what I have in my 78 currently. Have a R&P steering system installed.

Dodosmike

TheSkunkWorks

CASTER: As already mentioned, you do NOT want caster split on a sportscar. Get that equalized. While I'm not big on running much caster at all with manual steering, I would generally recommend no less than ~2 degrees with PS.

FRONT TOE: As already mentioned, you do NOT want front toe-out, except possibly for when you might find yourself AX'ing or RR'ing on a tight course with predominately slow corners.

REAR TOE: Out back, you might actually have a touch more than necessary if you're at standard ride height. That said, if your running very much lower you might want to leave this item alone.

CAMBER: Depends very much on your purposes and/or how you drive most of the time. I typically run a good bit more up front than on the rear, but I likely reside a bit nearer the hardcore end of the scale.

In any event, next time you head to the alignment shop, why not download alignment recommendations such as those offered by Guldstrand or VBP, pick the set which best matches with your priorities, and tell the shop to adhere as strictly as is practical to those preferred specs. My $.02


edit - To clarify, if the fronts are aiming inward towards the transmission, you have front toe-out.

BB2B

One more thing to consider, what tires are you running? the settings should be adjusted to account for tire width/profile. stock settings are good for stock tire sizes, probably an F70x15 for a '70 but if you are running P245-60x15 like me you will want camber at 0 degrees. The front toe should also be adjusted to 1/16 in. Stock caster should be fine.

PeteL46

Thank you; what is the reason for -.55 in the toe, did they explain?

PeteL46

Thanks for the details. I strictly drive the car on the back roads in N.W hills of CT. I push a bit in some corners, not crazy any more but still a push.
I supplied the alignment shop the above specs every time. It kind of boggles my mind that they gave me toe-out in the front when the specs clearly calls for toe-in.
Am I correct that the camber and caster come from the bundling of shims in the front a arms?
I tweaked the tow this afternoon to 3/16 toe-in (per side). I used their specs as a reference point. Son #2 and I placed a straight edge on the front tires and took a measurements both front and rear and adjusted accordingly. Drove so much better.
Thanks for the Guldstrand and VBP sites. Not sure which to pick

PeteL46

BB2B

Thanks for the reply.
I run 245-60's in front and 255's in the rear. What camber should I run in the rear?

redvetracr

which site tells you to run 3/8" toe in?

TheSkunkWorks

3/8" total front toe is excessive, and creates a lot of scrub.

And, as mentioned, rear toe depends very much on ride height. Some who run quite low choose to overcompensate against adverse rear toe-steer by running ~.25" total, but if you're not really down in the weeds you probably have too much back there too.

As for which source to use, Guldstrand or VBP, the specs from either are as good of a baseline from which to work as any you'll find, and better than most will likely ever conjure up on their own.

PeteL46

NO site. I gave each tie rods a 1/2 turn out. took another measurement. . moved the toe way to much.Ended up at 3/4 in (total)difference from front to back. Backed of tie rods 1/4 turn each and ended up at 3/8. This alignment issue started 2+ months ago. I wasn't able to get back there until yesterday. Missed the whole summer. Wanted to drive it today so I screwed around with it and settled there (3/8 total).maybe it was 9/32

PeteL46

Thanks, Guldstrand recommends 1/8 to 3/16. . Stay on the high side of 1/8??
The question about shims. . I meant camber and caster, not toe.

Dodosmike

Nope.

All I know is it tracks straight and true. No wander or anything wonky.
Even tire wear with a little over 4500km this summer.

Dodosmike

TheSkunkWorks

Since you don't need to run any more toe than is necessary, I'd start at the minimum.


I figured you had made a typo about use of the shims for toe, but wanted to cover that for any viewers that might not have known better. I'll edit that out if I see that you've fixed it.

edit - since fixed.

PeteL46

Thanks for all of your help. When I see toe specs is that per side or total?

I tried editing it out . . I don't know how..??

Off to bed, 11:50 in CT

TheSkunkWorks

That 1/8" to 3/16" should be the combined total.


BTW, just look for the little "edit" button at the lower right corner of any post of yours which you'd like to update/repair, and hack away.

Yep, time to rest my little gray cells too...

VetteNURSE

If you are looking for a shop who knows C3s and other generations Corvette center of Newington is the place. I am very picky about anyone working on my car so I avoid it at all costs. But the alignment is something I am just not set op to do. I did a complete suspention rebuild and then had the coevette center do the alignment. Ray and his crew are top notch. I couldn't have been more happy with it! It handles like it is supposed to now. Great on the highway. Ray and I discussed just how I wanted it set up and he was all over the specs I suggested. I highly reccomend them.

Mike