Little Mouse

i bought a set of them but never built the engine neighbor across the street even had a cleavland 4 bolt block he would have gave me. flow numbers a modern set of them chi heads out of australia flow 400cfm and it does not stray from the original design like what it takes to do that with a SBC. With a modern dart block set of CHI heads that are half the price of far out SBC stuff needed it would kick ****. Another thing to like 9.20 deck height and no spur gear oil pump, gerotor. I kid a friend of mne with his c5 tell him to go up to ford motor company thank them for the engine. Everything on it was done by ford right down to even a gerotor oil pump.

MotorHead

Your just kidding right ?

pauldana

Want to see friggen huge stock ports???

AMC 360, 390, and 401 dog leg ports.... bigger than my afr220 Competition ported heads by a long shot!!

StraubTech

When it comes to my work...no I don't kid.

StraubTech

Pump gas 540 build, AFR335 Heads in a 81 Camaro. Customer wanted to go from large solid roller to hyd roller because after a few hundred miles he didn't like the idea of the solid roller anymore and racing the car had become the last thing he wanted to do.

Cam and intake swap. Intake by Foxwell.

Old Cam Solid roller
748/710 272/280 110
737HP 640#/ft

Hyd Roller cam with 4603's
.673/.649 252/252 107
752HP at 6000 rpm, 740#/ft with spacer
740HP at 6000 rpm, 740#/ft w/o spacer

NOTE the torque difference!!!!!!!!!


Customer expected to loose HP and gain some torque for the new goal of a driver....

Little Mouse

Looks like you would want a .550.600 plus lift cam with the 210 head to really take advantage of it. Looks like from what mako put up at .500 lift the 195 head is stalling out compared to the 210 head. 210 head 292 to the 195 head 275 by .500 lift If your using a lower lift cam may as well use the 195 but what if your well above .500 lift. Looks like to around .450 lift the 195 head works well.

mako did not put up 550, 600 lift figures for both heads there on AFRs site. Most people go well past .500 lift with all the roller cams there using these days.

StraubTech

Not being a smart a$$ here just explaining in simple terms.....can you get 14 oz in a 12oz glass?

Little Mouse

If the glass keeps getting bigger it will hold the 14 oz in this case a 406. I can put a 195 or 210 on to small a glass or i can put them on to big a glass where it for sure can't fill it up.

You made a cam for pauldana for a relatily low rpm 6300 power range he wanted but even at those low revs you did not tell him a 195 head is better because of its good low lift figures on his 427 build. A 406 is not very far away from a 427. Pauldanas engine would be nothing but crap with a 195 head on it same as if i tried to put his 220 head on a 331 i want to build.

Average overal figures matter.

I think gkull runs about .700 lift he can take advantage of a bigger head.

DucatiDon

Who has done math on volume of air for different displacements and runner sizes?

How much air can a 383 push vs a 427 through 195, 220, 230 runners, and the resulting velocity? Might be interesting....obviously volume will be dependent upon rpm...
What's maximum efficiency?
That's a lot of variables....lol

gkull

Really......... If you have a lobe listed at 250 degrees @.050 and the .200 lift duration is 166 I would tend to say that the valve is spending most of it's time in excess of the .400 lift.

My other part of the statement was about Some listed dyno runs where the larger head more power on the same motor across the rpm range. So this supposed lower lift flow numbers don't pan out in the real world

StraubTech

The thing is with simple math calculations you can figure head size for given CID to make power to a given rpm. On the street velocity wins over volume every time!!!

StraubTech

.400" valve lift is a mid lift. It is not .600 or .700" lift

StraubTech

On a daily basis here.

gkull

I've got to hand it to you! You have the politician double talk and baffle them with BS down to a science.

StraubTech

Really. I think my reputation for proven power at the dyno, on the street, and down the track is pretty well documented. What I hate is talking to guys that have been led down the wrong path with wrong heads, wrong camshaft, wrong headers, and multiple other parts that have to be changed to get them to where they want to be.

I educate everyday. Those members who have called will attest to the time and detail I take with them to explain why what and how.

63mako

Here is some info. We already know the AFR 195 outperforms the AFR 210 below 450 lift. Here is how the AFR 195 compares to other name brand 210-220 heads. Port velocity is a big consideration on a street build.

HEAD Intake port size Flow @ .500 lift

AFR 195 275/213
Brodix -10 210 253/161
Dart Pro 1 215 249/172
Edlebrock 215 246/163
Profiler 210 271/187
Trickflow 215 273/190
World Motown 220 266/189

Point is port velocity needs to be a major deciding factor on a street build, otherwise everyone would run 245 heads. OP wanted a dual plane and low to midrange power. 6000 Max RPM occasionally. The AFR 195 outflows every other manufacturers 210-220 heads. We all grew up thinking you needed big ports to get big flow. Not the case and not the best for a pure street build. Any of these heads will make good power. The AFR 210 would make good power and probably higher peak HP on the dyno. We don't drive dyno's. For his intended use the 195 is the best of both worlds and makes power and torque in the operating range of the cam, intake and intended rpm.

63mako

Here is some good advise from Stan Weiss.

Bigger is not always better (The highest flow numbers and/or largest port volume). — Flow Velocity or the speed of the air through the port is just as important.
•We want the best flow numbers with the smallest port volume and the highest velocity (up to a point).
•Remember to compare all flow numbers. — Low lift flow does help performance.
•Just looking at flow numbers near or above maximum Valve lift for your camshaft is meaningless. Look for the best average flow from mid-lift to just before maximum lift of your camshaft.
•For street engines airflow at 0.400-inch lift is a good place to evaluate flow.
•Two heads can have different cc's in port volume and still have the same average CSA because of their different port centerline lengths.

Little Mouse

One thing i hate the guts of is the federal government corrupt bunch of scum regardless of party. Would rather be called a child molester, ax murder and rapist all three together and not be as offended as being called a politician, scum of the earth.

Could you have at least only called him a Lawyer or used car salesman if you were mad lol.

Ya if you go to big loose to much velocity throttle response not going to be good for a street ride. I doubt a 406 pulling on either head would be down on velocity.

StraubTech

Solid advice from a well respected person in the industry.

76strokervette

Just to update earlier information on the pro-filer 210 head the flow numbers are 288/194 @.500 with 2.08 intake valve.This head cannot be ordered with the 2.055 valve as listed with Stan Weiss.At least from pro-filer anyway.The afr 195 will work fine for the op but won't it fall short above 6000 rpm?The csa seems a little small above 6000 rpm.If the air speed gets too high won't the port go into choke?