StingrayLust

So I think I've written off the big block temptation I had for a while as well as the idea of rebuilding my #'s matching block. I'm pretty much focused on a crate engine and the one I'm looking at is this one from TriStar Engines out of Wisconsin, about an hour away from my house. I actually went and toured their facilities a couple weeks ago.

http://www.tristarengines.com/catalo...der-heads.html

I'm looking to go with these options:

1. Standard passenger side oil pan: Champ Pans, #CP60LTR
2. Dart Pro 1 aluminum heads ($300 upgrade over SHP heads)
3. the piston is .005" in the hole
4. head gaskets are .041 thickness
5. rotating assembly is internally balanced with 2 piece real seal
6. they use the Howards Cams Retrofit Hydraulic Roller Camshafts 110275-12. 241int/247exh @ 050 lift, 294int/300exh advertised duration, 112 lobe separation, .545int/.565exh lift.
7. The pistons are made my Icon, same company as Keith Black, it's just their higher end brand of forged piston.

Here's the basic info from the 406 web page:
Block:
Short Block Features:
Camshaft Advertised Duration:Camshaft Duration @ .050":
Heads:
Additional Parts:Horsepower: 530 (Street build)
Torque: 520 (Street build)

Starter:Intake:Headers:
I'll be reusing my HEI distributor and wires, qjet carb, and factory style fuel pump.


So, what does the forum think?

SL

76strokervette

I would go with the performer rpm qjet for the intake and talk to Lars about adjustments for the the carb and distributor.I know he has write ups on both.

63mako

Huge cam for a street build. What compression ratio? Performer intake and cam are mismatch. Do you have a manual trans and low gear differential?

Gordonm

with the above. Cam and Intake are not going to work well together. Also for that many cubes the 1 5/8 headers are to small. You going to want at least 1 3/4 pipes.

Karsten

I learned one thing while putting together a big Harley motor and the 2 things that will mess up any build is lack of Air/Fuel in and getting rid of the exhaust.

I was advised to go Quick Fuel 680 on my 375 HP 350......Qjet I think you will starve that motor. Then with the smaller tube headers you will back everything up.

Just thinking out loud, but it sound like one hell of a motor.

Karsten

MotorHead

Get bigger heads, Dart, AfR, etc. 200cc is too small it's not a 350ci it has more displacement than the 396ci big block. Eldlelbrock RPM AIr Gap is a good dual plane and the classic Holley 750 DP to top it off.

StingrayLust

I'm trying to stay with the Performer 2101 because of my divorced choke and the hood restrictions. I have a SB with the LT1/BB hood.

StingrayLust

I have a choice of compression ratios on the web page: 9.4:1 or 10.3:1. The 10.3:1 they say is recommended for street/strip use.


I had a TH400 that I pulled out and going back in a manual hooked up to a LGT700.

The diff is a 3.36 that I had rebuilt years ago before I knew I'd be getting all of this, otherwise I would have gone with a 3.70.

I had also questioned the cam as the jegs web site says it's for circle track racing, that had me a bit concerned. Here is the response I received from TriStar about it:

StingrayLust

<<<@!1!@>>>

The qjets from what I read are anywhere from 750-800 cfm. This carcraft article for a dual-plane intake test used a 750cfm Holley, and if I'm not mistaken, lots of big blocks also used the qjet.

That same article did use 1 3/4" dyno headers, so yes they would be bigger than the Flowtech 1 5/8".

What I need are some dirt-cheap headers to get me going as my budget is blown with the engine. If there are some bigger, dirt-cheap headers that will work, I'm all ears!!!

I see on eBay the http://www.ebay.com/itm/63-82-Chevy-Corvette-5-4L-V8-265-400-CID-4-1-OBX-Mid-Tube-Stainless-Header-/201134209968?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2ed4887bb0&vxp=mtr quite a bit, but they aren't coated and aren't any bigger in diameter than the Flowtech.

StingrayLust

Honestly, the 406 TriStar offers is more engine than I really wanted. I had planned on just rebuilding mine to get to around 430 hp/torque.

But if I had TriStar build me a 383, it's the same exact cost as almost all parts are the same except for the bore. So who wouldn't just get the bigger engine? I'm seriously asking, it doesn't make sense to go with a 383 when the 406 is the same price does it?

Karsten

Stingray,

You might want to take a look at this 383 Stroker with 415+ HP and 450 Tq for 1/2 the money.

http://high-performance-engines.com/...duct_Code=HP94

Karsten

63mako

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ed...kit-components

DO2G

Pull the trigger! It will be a blast to drive!

StingrayLust

I worry about hood fitment with the RPM. I've got a SB with the LT1/BB hood and my original configuration I have maybe 1/4 to 1/2" clearance right now.

According to the CarCraft article I linked to earlier in this thread, the Performer vs the Performer RPM I don't really lose all that much:

Performer (2101):Performer RPM (7101):Looking at those #'s, if fitment is an issue I'm really not giving up all that much by sticking with the 2101. The engine already has more HP/torque than I wanted for my back end. Plus, if I find out that there is room for the RPM, the intake is easily replaceable down the road.

I always find these pictures useful:

StingrayLust

So here's the cam that TriStar puts in by default for their 406:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hrs-110275-12

Cam Style: Hydraulic roller tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 2,600-6,500
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 241
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 247
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 241 int./247 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 294
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 300
Advertised Duration: 294 int./300 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.545 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.565 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.546 int./0.565 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees): 112
Camshaft Gear Attachment: 3-bolt
Camshaft Manufacturers Description: Rough idle, bracket race with excellent mid and upper-end horsepower.
Notes: Retrofit roller cam for engines that did not originally come with a roller cam.


I decided to use the Howards "Cam Recommendation" service. This morning I got an email from Scott at Howards suggesting this cam based on my specs:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hrs-110265-12

Cam Style: Hydraulic roller tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 2,400-6,000
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 233
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 241
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 233 int./241 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 286
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 294
Advertised Duration: 286 int./294 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.530 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.545 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.530 int./0.545 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees): 112
Camshaft Gear Attachment: 3-bolt
Camshaft Manufacturers Description: Lopey idle, hot street and bracket racing. 10.0:1+ compression ratio advised.
Notes: Retrofit roller cam for engines that did not originally come with a roller cam.


The RPM range that Howards suggested seems to be closer to what I would use. As the description states for the Howards suggestion is that it's a lopey idle instead of a rough idle, which I'm assuming means I'll have more vaccum.

I've calculated that with my 5-speed OD, at 70mph I'll be around 2100 rpm. Would I better off with a cam still closer to that rpm range?

MotorHead

Don't get caught up in the Basic RPM Range. My 427ci Basic RPM Range is 4000-8000RPM, it runs just fine at 1,700 RPM at 70mph with a 3.08 rear end.

StingrayLust

So I emailed Scot back at Howards asking if I should go with his recommendation or TriStars, and his response was this:
Here is the dyno sheet for their 406 ProStar build:

I'm thinking the 10" of vacuum @ 1100 seems a bit low. If I went with Scot@Howards original cam recommendation, would I get more vacuum?

63mako

You can drop the operating range about 500 RPM because of the bigger CI. The cam Howards recommended has 286 advertised duration. Motorheads cam has 286 advertised duration. The operating range your looking to use, your dual plane intake and 1 5/8 headers I would go with Howards recommendation and the 200 CC heads. It is a good match for your combination, be good for 6000 RPM shift points and the ports will match up pretty close although I would like to see the Performer RPM and 1 3/4 headers on it. If you went with a big single plane, 1 7/8 primaries and were shooting for 6500 RPM shifts use the bigger cam, bigger heads, bigger single plane, forged crank, 7000 RPM go solid roller and the bigger pieces. The default cam will make more peak HP but not in the range you will use it in and not average torque. It will barely be inching into the operating range at cruise. A well though out, well matched combination will outperform a mismatched combination especially on the street. Anything you add powerwise up top you deduct from bottom end. The cam Howards recommended will give you better vacuum.

StingrayLust

Not sure what you meant by "Motorheads", of if that referred to TriStar, and was your "Motorheads cam has 286" meant to say "294" instead as that's what the TriStar default cam would have.

I get real worried about a one-sized-fits-all engine. The engine may be setup for the absolute best HP/tq, but if my headlights don't pop up because of low vacuum, I'd be really upset.

The guy at Howards Cams I was in contact with, didn't seem to grasp my vacuum issue as he just pretty much said "yeah go ahead with what TriStar uses as they've dyno'd it".

I do plan on getting 1-3/4" headers, seems like the cheapest way to get into a set is with the Hooker 2134HKR Super Comps for about $463. I've read these hang low but found that they seem to fit well. I can always take them off next Fall and have them coated, spreading the cost the wife sees.

AirBusPilot

The RPM air-gap fits fine under my LT-1 hood.