5 speed conversion
#41
Supporting Vendor
Any recs to replace my Muncie M20 4-speed? The car is a 454cu.in. engine that when done should have about 400hp with 3.36 gear ring and pinion. Just looking for fun cruiser with tolerable RPMs on the highway. Also would like the 'perfect fit' idea with the shifter in the stock location. Should I go say 3.73 gears with 5-speed overdrive? Thanks!
Ratios: 2.87 1.89 1.28 1.00 .64 o/d
Jeff
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Jeff Kauffman
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Silver Sport Transmissions
2250 Stock Creek Blvd.
Rockford TN 37853
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Jeff Kauffman
VP Sales and Marketing
Silver Sport Transmissions
2250 Stock Creek Blvd.
Rockford TN 37853
jeff.kauffman@shiftsst.com
Authorized TREMEC Elite Distributor
#42
Racer
I would recommend the 600 for sure. The 500 is just geared too low for a big block and I would drive it first before making any gear ratio changes. The .64 o/d might be a bit too much overdrive for a 3.36 but you won't know until you drive it. 2100 rpms will be about 75 mph.
Ratios: 2.87 1.89 1.28 1.00 .64 o/d
Jeff
#43
5 Speed
I installed a Kiesler RS400 in my '69 350/350, manual, 3.70 gears. Their product and service was outstanding. I did a body off resto on this car and the 5spd was the best improvement I made! I drive the car 3X more often because I can now cruise at 75-80 mph easily.
#44
Any recs to replace my Muncie M20 4-speed? The car is a 454cu.in. engine that when done should have about 400hp with 3.36 gear ring and pinion. Just looking for fun cruiser with tolerable RPMs on the highway. Also would like the 'perfect fit' idea with the shifter in the stock location. Should I go say 3.73 gears with 5-speed overdrive? Thanks!
#45
Le Mans Master
If I were to do it again I'd get the Richmond 6 speed. It would be nice to have an extra gear when I'm cruising at 85.
#46
Team Owner
If I had the tko 600 to do again it would have went with the better sincros and the .82
Your higher rpm doesn't deal with low rpm OD driving. I had 4.11 and the .64 and the 4-5 jump was a lot, but 4.11 made the od totally usable. The first 4 were really closed up and it made for driving around a road race track in 3-4 and 5th on the main straight.
I then went to 3.55 to use the first 4 gears, but 5th sucks. It is more like a 80+ mph
Your higher rpm doesn't deal with low rpm OD driving. I had 4.11 and the .64 and the 4-5 jump was a lot, but 4.11 made the od totally usable. The first 4 were really closed up and it made for driving around a road race track in 3-4 and 5th on the main straight.
I then went to 3.55 to use the first 4 gears, but 5th sucks. It is more like a 80+ mph
#47
Team Owner
Member Since: Jul 2004
Location: Redondo Beach, California
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I bought two TKO600's from Keisler (spelling) before they went bankrupt. One for the 68 and one for the 70.
Background: My original plans were to use a Richmond 5 speed in the 70 and a 3.08:1 differential. I originally had a Doug Nash 5 speed in a 69 with a clone L88 engine and a 3.08:1 differential. Worked out fine,..Doug Nash transmissions were bought out by Richmond..so I thought I't be like old times using the Richmond 5 speed with a 3.08:1 differential in the 70 BB. The 70 is slated for a horsey 496/502 engine. Just as the 70 diff was to be built up with a Tom's super 10 bolt rear end, I discovered on the internet that the Richmond would not tolerate the ft-lb ratings of high performance BB's. I read that when Richmond began reproducing the Doug Nash 5 speed, they lowered the torque ratings of the trannie to reduce costs. So I made a quick call to my diff rebuilder and he had not started my job. I made a decision to buy a TKO600 with it's much higher foot-lb torque ratings and so with the TKO600 I had to have the rear end built up with a 3.73:1 rear end. (Diff rebuilder gave me a trade-in allowance on my no longer needed 3.08:1, the rear end gears were from Tom's) With the Richmond, you really don't want a rear end diff ratio greater than 3.08:1 and with the TKO600 you don't want a rear end gear ratio less than 3.73:1.
After restoring my 68, and out on the road for the first time in almost 30 years, I was dismayed that it was running 3000 rpm at 70 mph. (ZZ4 engine). The high engine speed drove me nuts. So I purchased another TKO600! Overkill since the torque rating of the TKO600 is much more than the ZZ4 will produce. Still a very nice smooth and easy shifting transmission, shifter has a short throw and ...2000 rpm at 70 mph. I'm still using a stock gear shifter handle so no one can tell it's a 5 speed. I had the tranny crossmember on the 68 converted to being removeable. This makes replacing the trannie soooo much more easier. I had this done by J&D Corvette (Bellflower, Ca) they cut the crossmember about 1 1/2 feet away.on both sides, from the transmission mount, and welded in flange plates to mate the crossmember back into one piece.
I think the TKO600 was an original trannie on the early Vipers...don't know for sure.
Background: My original plans were to use a Richmond 5 speed in the 70 and a 3.08:1 differential. I originally had a Doug Nash 5 speed in a 69 with a clone L88 engine and a 3.08:1 differential. Worked out fine,..Doug Nash transmissions were bought out by Richmond..so I thought I't be like old times using the Richmond 5 speed with a 3.08:1 differential in the 70 BB. The 70 is slated for a horsey 496/502 engine. Just as the 70 diff was to be built up with a Tom's super 10 bolt rear end, I discovered on the internet that the Richmond would not tolerate the ft-lb ratings of high performance BB's. I read that when Richmond began reproducing the Doug Nash 5 speed, they lowered the torque ratings of the trannie to reduce costs. So I made a quick call to my diff rebuilder and he had not started my job. I made a decision to buy a TKO600 with it's much higher foot-lb torque ratings and so with the TKO600 I had to have the rear end built up with a 3.73:1 rear end. (Diff rebuilder gave me a trade-in allowance on my no longer needed 3.08:1, the rear end gears were from Tom's) With the Richmond, you really don't want a rear end diff ratio greater than 3.08:1 and with the TKO600 you don't want a rear end gear ratio less than 3.73:1.
After restoring my 68, and out on the road for the first time in almost 30 years, I was dismayed that it was running 3000 rpm at 70 mph. (ZZ4 engine). The high engine speed drove me nuts. So I purchased another TKO600! Overkill since the torque rating of the TKO600 is much more than the ZZ4 will produce. Still a very nice smooth and easy shifting transmission, shifter has a short throw and ...2000 rpm at 70 mph. I'm still using a stock gear shifter handle so no one can tell it's a 5 speed. I had the tranny crossmember on the 68 converted to being removeable. This makes replacing the trannie soooo much more easier. I had this done by J&D Corvette (Bellflower, Ca) they cut the crossmember about 1 1/2 feet away.on both sides, from the transmission mount, and welded in flange plates to mate the crossmember back into one piece.
I think the TKO600 was an original trannie on the early Vipers...don't know for sure.
Last edited by 68/70Vette; 11-21-2014 at 01:54 AM.
#48
Team Owner
Member Since: Jul 2004
Location: Redondo Beach, California
Posts: 39,492
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No need to change the clutch linkage. My ZZ4 equipped TKO600 trannie has a McLeod dual friction clutch (single disk) and it's very easy to shift. My 70 has a McLoed dual disk clutch..I've yet to drive this car. Both cars are using the stock aluminum GM bellhousings. The stock GM bellhousings will install without bellhousing alignment procedures required by repro bellhousings.
#49
Melting Slicks
No need to change the clutch linkage. My ZZ4 equipped TKO600 trannie has a McLeod dual friction clutch (single disk) and it's very easy to shift. My 70 has a McLoed dual disk clutch..I've yet to drive this car. Both cars are using the stock aluminum GM bellhousings. The stock GM bellhousings will install without bellhousing alignment procedures required by repro bellhousings.
http://lakewoodindustries.com/drivet...ment-bell.html
One note. If you are not using a mini-starter, the starter hole has to be opened up on the passenger side to accept the starter nose.
#50
Racer
Thanks all... I'm going to seek some advice of original M20 vs 5 speed, etc in a separate thread
Last edited by GregS_72; 11-21-2014 at 02:02 PM.
#51
You can't make a general statement like that and have it be true for everyone, it all depends on the engine's torque capability. A friend runs a 468 with a TKO600 with 0.64 OD and a 3.08 rear. The engine makes 500 RWT and cruises with no problems. Put that combo on a cammed-up small block and it might not work out. Not everyone wants the first gear x rear ratio (10.7) to be that high either. You need to consider small block versus big block. And cruiser versus road racer with the OD gear (0.64 or 0.80). For me, a 3.55 would have been fine.
#53
You can't make a general statement like that and have it be true for everyone, it all depends on the engine's torque capability. A friend runs a 468 with a TKO600 with 0.64 OD and a 3.08 rear. The engine makes 500 RWT and cruises with no problems. Put that combo on a cammed-up small block and it might not work out. Not everyone wants the first gear x rear ratio (10.7) to be that high either. You need to consider small block versus big block. And cruiser versus road racer with the OD gear (0.64 or 0.80). For me, a 3.55 would have been fine.
I thought that it's desirable to have the first gear x rear ratio be as close to '10' as possible, no?
I'm not doing any racing. What 5-speed trans (TKO500 or TKO600) and rear end ratio would you recommend for my '71?
Thanks