VanHanlon

Hi folks,

I have a '74 with factory PS that was hit on the front-most portion of the passenger fender over the summer. The soccer-mom piloted Honda Pilot (weighing in at a Hummer-esque 4550 lbs.) also damaged the wheel and center link. After two months in a shop that specializes in Corvettes, the obviously busted stuff was taken care of, and the car looks great. Sadly, it *only* looks great.

The frame was checked for straightness, but the car was apparently never test-driven because the front wheels will not stay in alignment. I set the toe to zero, but it goes out by over 15 degrees once it hits the road. The shop owner was told of this issue back in August, but here I am with a Corvette I can't drive.

I don't understand what could still be broken. The tie rods/sleeves are solid, ball joints are OK, bearings are good, there's very little runout in the disc, and I can't move the control arms laterally (by hand, anyway). What gives????

I wanna just do it my damn self because I want it done right...

- Jonathan in MA

MajD

When you checked the ball joints, did you disconnect them from the spindle and see if maybe the shaft was bent where it meets the ball? I'm thinking it's possible that if that's the case, then when you align the wheel the ball rotates in the housing and the alignment looks good, but then when you drive it moves. You could probably check that by aligning the front, starting the car, rotating the steering wheel through its full travel couple times, and rechecking the alignment. Just a thought.

VanHanlon

MajD,

I didn't disconnect the ball joints; I just did the simple wheel-wiggle test. I like your idea, though. Gonna check that next.

Thanks!

VanHanlon

It looks like you're right, MajD. The top ball joint is visibly bent. I'll replace it and then check the bottom one and hopefully be back on the road. Thanks a whole lot, man. I think you nailed it.

gjohnson

I'd be pissed!That Corvette shop shouldn't have missed a bum ball joint.Hope that fixes your problem.This forum is awesome. I've had more than one problem solved by guys that have been there done that!!

lionelhutz

I'd also take a good look at the frame where the lower control arms install. That's a weak spot that has failed on a few cars here. If there was a crack around the lower a-arm mounts it could allow the frame to flex.

MajD

Any time. I'm just glad you found the problem.

VanHanlon

Well, I spoke too soon. I replaced the upper joint and have same issue, only more pronounced. The lower joint looked OK, so now I guess I'll have to check/replace the nine other ball-type devices in the front end. Super cool.

PS - I couldn't find any cracks or separated welds in the frame. Is there anything else that could possibly cause the toe to be so variable? The wheel was replaced, and there's only a negligible amount of runout in the disc.

PPS - Shop owner is ignoring me now. Shoulda totaled the thing and started over with another car...

chvet73

If there was enough force to bend a ball joint I would think both the control arms and spindle could be bent too.

tfi racing

Bent or loose idler arm,loose threads in tie rod adjusting sleeve,damaged splines at steering box/pitman arm,if the toe is changing something is moving around that shouldn't.

bashcraft

I've never heard of a bent ball joint. I don't even think it's possible. It would've torn something apart before bending a ball joint.

Something is loose and moving when you drive it. I wouldn't drive it again until you find the problem.

MajD

I reread your post and noticed you said the shop replaced the centerlink. I would think they would only do that if it was bent, and since it's conneced to the idler arm and tie rod ends, those were probably damaged too. Assuming these parts were replaced, if the car was hit at the correct angle and hard enough to bend the ball joint, the steering knuckle on the spindle could be bent also.

bashcraft

Something being bent is not going to cause the toe setting to mysteriously change on it's own. Like I said, something is loose and moving.

VanHanlon

The upper was indeed bent. New Pilots are friggin' huge.

That said, the tie rod ends are straight/tight, sleeves are fine, PS components fine, idler arm fine (if bent, only an infinitesimal amount). I identified a bit of fore/aft play with the wheel still bolted on, and I also noticed that there was some looseness where the link connects to the valve. Those components are good, just not fully secured.

Seems to me that it'd have to be something in the tie rod(s) or control arms, as there's just a tiny amount of runout when I rotate the disc (measured with dial gauge). Anything from the tie rods to the steering wheel would only affect total steering play, am I right?

I agree that the problem is that something is loose, I just haven't found anything that's THAT loose.

Thanks for the help, fellas.

MajD

Interesting...does the toe change the same way each time like something is settling in to a position, or is it different each time you check, like something is moving around randomly? Are both tires off the same way, opposite, or different ways?

lionelhutz

Have you jacked the car up until the wheels were just off the ground and then placed an object (like a oil jug or spray can) right beside the tire almost touching it before giving the tire a gentle turn. That will quickly show if a tire is bent or has some movement to it.

Are you placing the car with jack-stands under the a-arms before checking the suspension. You often can't find loose parts with the suspension hanging.

Also, if you can get it on a 4-post lift you could have someone hold the brakes and shift from drive to reverse while you watch the suspension for movement.

as MadJ posted - does it change randomly or always back to toe-in or toe-out.

Duane4238

I'd also check the wheel bearings, rims, and front hubs for damage. A hit that bent the ball joint could have easily destroyed a wheel bearing, bent or cracked a rim, or cracked a hub. Keep looking. With it changing that much each time, you're going to find something that's very obvious.
Duane