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Just curious as to how the oil should look after a flat tappet cam break in. I used Rotella 15-40T, Liberal amounts of molly assembly lube and comp cams break in additive. Did the typical break in procedure. Pre lubed engine ran at 2500 rpm up to 3500 up and down for 25 minutes yada yada yada. Anyway put about 50 miles on it so far city and highway driving and still runs smooth. So changed out the oil with some 10w-30 and opened up the filter to find a very dark filter element (similar to color of assembly lube) and very fine microscopic particulate. No big chunks thank goodness lol. Does this seem normal?. Car still runs smooth so I’m thinking I’m ok. Has anyone else experienced the same?
Yep, did mine 2 weeks ago I used VR1 10-30 and all the recommended break in lubes and it looked about like that. I changed the oil right after I completed the break in though so I don't remember mine being that dark but other than that seems right.
You are fine.
That is left over Moly from the cam break in lube. Good for the cam on the initial start up, not so good for the engine bearings long term.
I personally change the oil immediately after the initial cam break-in to get the Moly lube out of the oil system. It has done its job in the first 20 minutes and no longer needed.
Next question is what oil and additive do I use next?
The Diesel oils don't have near the zinc they used to have and I think the detergent package is too harsh for a gasoline engine.
I just run a conventional mineral based oil with the cheap Rislone zinc additive and have had great success, even with notorious aggressive flat tappet Comp Cams known for failure. If the cam makes it 3000 miles, go to full synthetic if you wish.
The first 20 minutes to "marry" the cam and lifters is the critical time for any flat tappet camshaft.
FWIW…I just did the 30 minute breakin procedure and then immediately changed the oil after the breakin to conventional oil-has about 750 miles on the regular oil now and will be switching to FULL synthetic this Spring after about 1,000 miles. I was told by my engine builder and have read that roller cams need the same breakin procedure as flat tappet-Mine is a ROLLER cam, not flat tappet.
As far as engine oil to use for breakin and after you drain the breakin oil, I would definitely use a BREAKIN conventional oil (I used Driven Breakin oil), not just any conventional oil and definitely not a diesel oil, again, with a roller cam (same procedure for Flat tappet cam-even more important). I am using Driven Hot Rod 15W-50 (high Zinc) conventional oil until the 1,000 mile mark with my roller cam, per the builders recommendation….He did the bottom end and I followed his direction exactly since if anything goes wrong, there is no issues about not following directions. If you plan on switching to a synthetic after 2-3,000 miles (or a conventional), make sure that you use a high Zinc oil….I would not gamble with just any oil...
It's not really an "Oil" problem. Conventional oil today has more zinc than oil had in the 50's with flat tappet cams. The problem is most Cam companies started using imported cam cores and lifters that were inferior or "soft". Oil back in the 50's and 60's was non-detergent mineral oil with no additive package and cam failures were not common.
Cam companies blamed failures on the installer, valve spring pressure and oil quality. The problem was buying cheap cores, though they will never admit it.
I built literally hundreds of engines during the early 80's and never did anything special outside of using plenty of the old Crane assembly lube on everything.
We started the engines, set the timing and went straight to the track with them, Drag and circle track and run the hell out of them. It was rare, and I mean rare to lose a cam. And for some damn reason, it has become rare again in the last year or so after so many cams from the aftermarket manufacturers wiped lobes on start up.
Now we follow all these crazy break-in procedures, special oil and additives and sweat bullets for the first few thousand miles hoping the cam lives.
It's all bullcrap my friends, it was just a band-aid for cam companies junk cores and cams still failed at a high rate following all the procedures, additives and weak valve springs. It was a crap shoot!
Cam companies realized to stay in business they had to buy better cores. Most smaller custom grind companies had little to no failure because they use good stuff. Talk to Harold Brookshire that owned Ultra-Dyne cams. He designed almost all the cam profiles for every major cam company out there, including the recent Thumper and Voo-Doo cams.
During this soft/crap core failure period, specialty oil companies like Joe Gibbs and Brad Penn jumped on the bandwagon and started marketing specialty oils with the high zinc, {gotta have it for the cam to survive} marketing campaign to rake in the money. Cam companies offset the warranty claims by pushing billet rollers where a quality flat tappet would work just fine, or offered nitriding at an additional cost.
It was all a cost saving scandal and we took it hook, line and sinker!
Be aware there are still some soft cams floating around out there so look at the manufacture date on the spec card when you buy one. If its not a recent grind date, don't use it.
It's not really an "Oil" problem. Conventional oil today has more zinc than oil had in the 50's with flat tappet cams. The problem is most Cam companies started using imported cam cores and lifters that were inferior or "soft". Oil back in the 50's and 60's was non-detergent mineral oil with no additive package and cam failures were not common.
Cam companies blamed failures on the installer, valve spring pressure and oil quality. The problem was buying cheap cores, though they will never admit it.
I built literally hundreds of engines during the early 80's and never did anything special outside of using plenty of the old Crane assembly lube on everything.
We started the engines, set the timing and went straight to the track with them, Drag and circle track and run the hell out of them. It was rare, and I mean rare to lose a cam. And for some damn reason, it has become rare again in the last year or so after so many cams from the aftermarket manufacturers wiped lobes on start up.
Now we follow all these crazy break-in procedures, special oil and additives and sweat bullets for the first few thousand miles hoping the cam lives.
It's all bullcrap my friends, it was just a band-aid for cam companies junk cores and cams still failed at a high rate following all the procedures, additives and weak valve springs. It was a crap shoot!
Cam companies realized to stay in business they had to buy better cores. Most smaller custom grind companies had little to no failure because they use good stuff. Talk to Harold Brookshire that owned Ultra-Dyne cams. He designed almost all the cam profiles for every major cam company out there, including the recent Thumper and Voo-Doo cams.
During this soft/crap core failure period, specialty oil companies like Joe Gibbs and Brad Penn jumped on the bandwagon and started marketing specialty oils with the high zinc, {gotta have it for the cam to survive} marketing campaign to rake in the money. Cam companies offset the warranty claims by pushing billet rollers where a quality flat tappet would work just fine, or offered nitriding at an additional cost. 1972 Caprice with the 400 V8 wiped a lope at 114,000 miles...
It was all a cost saving scandal and we took it hook, line and sinker!
Be aware there are still some soft cams floating around out there so look at the manufacture date on the spec card when you buy one. If its not a recent grind date, don't use it.
There is a sucker born everyday...
I agree...
Two comments though:
The oil in the 80/90's up to mid 2000's had much more ZDDP than they do today due to the EPA reduction in ZDDP that occurred about 6-7 years ago for mass market oils since the Zinc was poisoning the cats.
Many American car companies were using junk cam cores in the 70/80's and stock OEM cams were wiping at very low mileage by today's standards (the aftermarket replacement cams were of superior quality to the OEM's). A friend of mine who owned his own high performance parts stores in the late 80's/90's sold hundreds, (and I do mean hundreds of replacement cams) since the OEM cams were wiping lobes at an alarming rate. I replaced the OEM cam in my 73 Nova SS 350 at 118,000 miles-wiped a cam lope….
The oil in the 80/90's up to mid 2000's had much more ZDDP than they do today due to the EPA reduction in ZDDP that occurred about 6-7 years ago for mass market oils since the Zinc was poisoning the cats.
Many American car companies were using junk cam cores in the 70/80's and stock OEM cams were wiping at very low mileage by today's standards (the aftermarket replacement cams were of superior quality to the OEM's). A friend of mine who owned his own high performance parts stores in the late 80's/90's sold hundreds, (and I do mean hundreds of replacement cams) since the OEM cams were wiping lobes at an alarming rate. I replaced the OEM cam in my 73 Nova SS 350 at 118,000 miles-wiped a cam lope….
You are correct. I replaced many 305/350 small block cams during the 80's. Cars came in with a miss and automatically you pulled the valve covers and watched the valve action. Some cylinders had about .050 lift from wiped lobes. GM did admit it was a cam/lifter problem on there end, but never recalled because most of them made it past 50K and out of warranty before it was noticeable. Though the cam was slowly failing from day one.
The ramp on these new flat tappet cams are more aggressive than many hydraulic rollers. They surpass the hydraulic intensity that logical engineering would consider "safe". Fast ramps increase performance. Performance and high power numbers sell cams. The cam companies are giving the customer what they demand maximum performance cheap. A increased instance of wiped lobes are the result. http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2006...ifter-failure/
Thanks for all the useful information guys. I’ve installed 4 cams in the past just using plain oil and never had an issue until the last time about 8 years ago I replaced a flat cam in a 78 El Camino with a 305. All the push rods where spinning after the break in and still flattened 2 lobes within 600 miles. After reading so many horror stories on line I guess I’m a little paranoid. I tend to agree with PcolaPaul that it’s just crappy or inferior cores and lifters. I bought a Summit Racing branded cam and lifters and no mention of the country of origin on the packaging. Just gonna put another 300 or so miles on it and crack open the filter and see how it looks
03-30-2015, 11:33 PM
Oil after flat tappet cam break in.
