I thought I set valve lash correctly....getting a LOT of clatter
04-05-2015, 07:50 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
I thought I set valve lash correctly....getting a LOT of clatter
I just got my 454 put together and it fired right up. I was pretty happy about that but Im getting what I imagine to be some valve clatter at idle. At idle, it sounds like a few valves are making noises, if I rev it a bit the noise seems to lessen, but doesnt go away. Im not sure how to proceed right now. The only other 'valve noise; Ive ever heard is on a Dodge 318, and that was really more of a TIC TIC TIC. My engine noise is something between a 'TIC' and a exhaust manifold leak. Here are some givens..
1) Bottom end only has about 3K miles on it.
2) Valve lash was done by the 'wiggle up and down, get no wiggle, tighten 1/2 turn.
3) Engine was primed with a hand drill until oil pressure gauge started moving (about 10 seconds, gauge hit about 25lbs and I stopped)
4) Idle seems fine, no popping or spitting. (never brought it above 1500 RPM by flipping the throttle)
I want to take the easy route and just give them all another 1/4 turn, as re checking the lash now that everything is assembled will be damn near impossible. (rotating the engine with all the accessories in the way is a huge problem) Has anyone done the 'cut a junk valve cover and adjust while running?' method? The whole engine has been freshly painted and I dont really want to get oil everywhere.
Ive spent 4 months putting this thing together. What shall I do?
1) Bottom end only has about 3K miles on it.
2) Valve lash was done by the 'wiggle up and down, get no wiggle, tighten 1/2 turn.
3) Engine was primed with a hand drill until oil pressure gauge started moving (about 10 seconds, gauge hit about 25lbs and I stopped)
4) Idle seems fine, no popping or spitting. (never brought it above 1500 RPM by flipping the throttle)
I want to take the easy route and just give them all another 1/4 turn, as re checking the lash now that everything is assembled will be damn near impossible. (rotating the engine with all the accessories in the way is a huge problem) Has anyone done the 'cut a junk valve cover and adjust while running?' method? The whole engine has been freshly painted and I dont really want to get oil everywhere.
Ive spent 4 months putting this thing together. What shall I do?
04-05-2015, 08:09 PM
#2
Scott,
Not sure what lifters you have, but Chris Straub recommends 3/4 turn on the Morels. If you're sure that they are all at 1/2 turn now, shut the engine off, take the valve covers off, mark the rocker adjusting nut at the 12 o'clock position, hold the nut with a box wrench and break the center socket-head set screw loose. Back the set screw out slightly more than 1/4 turn, tighten the adjusting nut the 1/4 turn clockwise from the 12 o'clock position and while holding the adjusting nut at 3 o'clock, tighten the set screw and torque it to 20 ft-lbs without letting the adjusting nut move from the 3 o'clock position. Just do them all of the rockers one at a time. It doesn't matter where the engine is in relation to valve events. No rotating of the engine is necessary.
If you have the regular stock stamped steel rockers with the factory style lock nut, just turn the nut the 1/4 turn clockwise.
Not sure what lifters you have, but Chris Straub recommends 3/4 turn on the Morels. If you're sure that they are all at 1/2 turn now, shut the engine off, take the valve covers off, mark the rocker adjusting nut at the 12 o'clock position, hold the nut with a box wrench and break the center socket-head set screw loose. Back the set screw out slightly more than 1/4 turn, tighten the adjusting nut the 1/4 turn clockwise from the 12 o'clock position and while holding the adjusting nut at 3 o'clock, tighten the set screw and torque it to 20 ft-lbs without letting the adjusting nut move from the 3 o'clock position. Just do them all of the rockers one at a time. It doesn't matter where the engine is in relation to valve events. No rotating of the engine is necessary.
If you have the regular stock stamped steel rockers with the factory style lock nut, just turn the nut the 1/4 turn clockwise.
04-05-2015, 08:19 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
Or you can get a junk valve cover, cut the top out of it and adjust your valves with the engine running. Get the oil drip clips and you won't have any mess. It seems no one adjusts the valves with the engine running anymore. That was the only way we did it years ago. Of course this is only if you have hydraulic lifters. Disregard if they're mechanical.
Duane
Duane
04-05-2015, 08:19 PM
#4
Drifting
Thread Starter
Scott,
Not sure what lifters you have, but Chris Straub recommends 3/4 turn on the Morels. If you're sure that they are all at 1/2 turn now, shut the engine off, take the valve covers off, mark the rocker adjusting nut at the 12 o'clock position, hold the nut with a box wrench and break the center socket-head set screw loose. Back the set screw out slightly more than 1/4 turn, tighten the adjusting nut the 1/4 turn clockwise from the 12 o'clock position and while holding the adjusting nut at 3 o'clock, tighten the set screw and torque it to 20 ft-lbs without letting the adjusting nut move from the 3 o'clock position. Just do them all of the rockers one at a time. It doesn't matter where the engine is in relation to valve events. No rotating of the engine is necessary.
If you have the regular stock stamped steel rockers with the factory style lock nut, just turn the nut the 1/4 turn clockwise.
Not sure what lifters you have, but Chris Straub recommends 3/4 turn on the Morels. If you're sure that they are all at 1/2 turn now, shut the engine off, take the valve covers off, mark the rocker adjusting nut at the 12 o'clock position, hold the nut with a box wrench and break the center socket-head set screw loose. Back the set screw out slightly more than 1/4 turn, tighten the adjusting nut the 1/4 turn clockwise from the 12 o'clock position and while holding the adjusting nut at 3 o'clock, tighten the set screw and torque it to 20 ft-lbs without letting the adjusting nut move from the 3 o'clock position. Just do them all of the rockers one at a time. It doesn't matter where the engine is in relation to valve events. No rotating of the engine is necessary.
If you have the regular stock stamped steel rockers with the factory style lock nut, just turn the nut the 1/4 turn clockwise.
04-05-2015, 08:34 PM
#5
Scott,
I have cut down a set of cheap covers also and run the engine, then with a screwdriver on the rocker stud and against my ear, I determined which were too loose and then just tightened those only. Knowing the brand of roller lifters that you have, you could contact the manufacturer and see what range of adjustment the lifters have and what they recommend. I think you are safe going to 3/4 turn as long as you are reasonably certain you are starting at a 1/2 turn on all. If you went to a full turn I don't think you would hurt anything, but I would not do it without checking with the manufacturer first. Just being belt and suspenders. If you don't have a clatter, but just a tick here and there, it doesn't sound like you are far off from where you should be. You could just go an 1/8 turn tighter on all to be conservative and see what happens. That may solve the problem.
Did you get the lifters from Chris?
I have cut down a set of cheap covers also and run the engine, then with a screwdriver on the rocker stud and against my ear, I determined which were too loose and then just tightened those only. Knowing the brand of roller lifters that you have, you could contact the manufacturer and see what range of adjustment the lifters have and what they recommend. I think you are safe going to 3/4 turn as long as you are reasonably certain you are starting at a 1/2 turn on all. If you went to a full turn I don't think you would hurt anything, but I would not do it without checking with the manufacturer first. Just being belt and suspenders. If you don't have a clatter, but just a tick here and there, it doesn't sound like you are far off from where you should be. You could just go an 1/8 turn tighter on all to be conservative and see what happens. That may solve the problem.
Did you get the lifters from Chris?
Last edited by Super6; 04-05-2015 at 08:35 PM. Reason: Spelling fix.
04-05-2015, 08:57 PM
#6
Nam Labrat
Member Since: Sep 2013
Location: New Orleans Loo-z-anna
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Rookie here who just adjusted hydraulic lifters and stock rocker arms on my 1970 350.
I did the pre-start-up adjustment of rotating each piston to TDC on the compression stroke....the valves were tapping after driving the car about 100 miles.
I bought 2 salvage yard valve covers and cut a slot in the top of each one (you can do it with one cover, but you make a mess removing the cover to place it on the other head....two are better.....ALSO---cut a slot that is just big enough to get your adjusting tool into the slot easily or oil will squirt out of the slot if it is too wide!)
As for "too tight"......be careful.....the engine must be well warmed up for 5 or 10 minutes......you can set a temporary vacuum gauge on the engine and/or watch the tach gauge.....then adjust the nut tighter 1/4 turn at a time.....listen for a drop in engine rpm/tach drop....an rpm drop means the valve is too tight if the rpm does not increase in a few seconds as the lifter resets itself-----vacuum reading drop------tapping gets quieter-----pushrod should be spinning rapidly (the spnining will slow down or even stop if the nut is TOO tight)
Easy does it......you can actually get the valve train adjusted so that it makes NO noise----BUT that might be risky. It took me several different sessions and a couple hundred miles on the engine (new components really need breaking in) of adjusting the lifters because I didn't want to damage valves or pistons.
As you put some miles on the engine it may need adjusting again.
Let the expert members advise you about my comments before you try them.
I did the pre-start-up adjustment of rotating each piston to TDC on the compression stroke....the valves were tapping after driving the car about 100 miles.
I bought 2 salvage yard valve covers and cut a slot in the top of each one (you can do it with one cover, but you make a mess removing the cover to place it on the other head....two are better.....ALSO---cut a slot that is just big enough to get your adjusting tool into the slot easily or oil will squirt out of the slot if it is too wide!)
As for "too tight"......be careful.....the engine must be well warmed up for 5 or 10 minutes......you can set a temporary vacuum gauge on the engine and/or watch the tach gauge.....then adjust the nut tighter 1/4 turn at a time.....listen for a drop in engine rpm/tach drop....an rpm drop means the valve is too tight if the rpm does not increase in a few seconds as the lifter resets itself-----vacuum reading drop------tapping gets quieter-----pushrod should be spinning rapidly (the spnining will slow down or even stop if the nut is TOO tight)
Easy does it......you can actually get the valve train adjusted so that it makes NO noise----BUT that might be risky. It took me several different sessions and a couple hundred miles on the engine (new components really need breaking in) of adjusting the lifters because I didn't want to damage valves or pistons.
As you put some miles on the engine it may need adjusting again.
Let the expert members advise you about my comments before you try them.
Last edited by doorgunner; 04-05-2015 at 09:03 PM.
04-05-2015, 09:15 PM
#7
Drifting
Thread Starter
The OTHER issue I noticed is my cheap a$$ valve covers. (The chrome aftermarket ones) Two of the rockers were hitting the baffle under the breather. One was rubbing (I cut a window in the baffle) the other appears to be tappping it from underneath. While I dont think this it the primary cause of my noise, its worth investigating.
04-06-2015, 07:10 AM
#8
Rookie here who just adjusted hydraulic lifters and stock rocker arms on my 1970 350.
I did the pre-start-up adjustment of rotating each piston to TDC on the compression stroke....the valves were tapping after driving the car about 100 miles.
I bought 2 salvage yard valve covers and cut a slot in the top of each one (you can do it with one cover, but you make a mess removing the cover to place it on the other head....two are better.....ALSO---cut a slot that is just big enough to get your adjusting tool into the slot easily or oil will squirt out of the slot if it is too wide!)
As for "too tight"......be careful.....the engine must be well warmed up for 5 or 10 minutes......you can set a temporary vacuum gauge on the engine and/or watch the tach gauge.....then adjust the nut tighter 1/4 turn at a time.....listen for a drop in engine rpm/tach drop....an rpm drop means the valve is too tight if the rpm does not increase in a few seconds as the lifter resets itself-----vacuum reading drop------tapping gets quieter-----pushrod should be spinning rapidly (the spnining will slow down or even stop if the nut is TOO tight)
Easy does it......you can actually get the valve train adjusted so that it makes NO noise----BUT that might be risky. It took me several different sessions and a couple hundred miles on the engine (new components really need breaking in) of adjusting the lifters because I didn't want to damage valves or pistons.
As you put some miles on the engine it may need adjusting again.
Let the expert members advise you about my comments before you try them.
I did the pre-start-up adjustment of rotating each piston to TDC on the compression stroke....the valves were tapping after driving the car about 100 miles.
I bought 2 salvage yard valve covers and cut a slot in the top of each one (you can do it with one cover, but you make a mess removing the cover to place it on the other head....two are better.....ALSO---cut a slot that is just big enough to get your adjusting tool into the slot easily or oil will squirt out of the slot if it is too wide!)
As for "too tight"......be careful.....the engine must be well warmed up for 5 or 10 minutes......you can set a temporary vacuum gauge on the engine and/or watch the tach gauge.....then adjust the nut tighter 1/4 turn at a time.....listen for a drop in engine rpm/tach drop....an rpm drop means the valve is too tight if the rpm does not increase in a few seconds as the lifter resets itself-----vacuum reading drop------tapping gets quieter-----pushrod should be spinning rapidly (the spnining will slow down or even stop if the nut is TOO tight)
Easy does it......you can actually get the valve train adjusted so that it makes NO noise----BUT that might be risky. It took me several different sessions and a couple hundred miles on the engine (new components really need breaking in) of adjusting the lifters because I didn't want to damage valves or pistons.
As you put some miles on the engine it may need adjusting again.
Let the expert members advise you about my comments before you try them.
04-06-2015, 08:11 AM
#9
Safety Car
It is easy to adjust the rockers with engine off. First back off nut on the first valve in the list below. Follow sheet I posted , zero lash is easiest to do with moving the push rod up and down and to get your zero lash gently tighten the nut by hand until the push rod and rocker have no movement between them. STOP. that is zero lash . Now add what ever turns the lifter maker says is required to set lash. And go to the next one
04-06-2015, 08:38 AM
#10
Drifting
Thread Starter
Have you ever tried to get all those pistons to TDC, with the entire front end of the engine on? (Fan, pulleys, water pump, belts, etc) Its near impossible to turn everything over by hand with all that in the way. (Im open to suggestions if someone knows a better way) I think I was just a little hesitant when I hit zero lash and may have left a few just a tad loose.
04-06-2015, 08:55 AM
#11
Race Director
Have you ever tried to get all those pistons to TDC, with the entire front end of the engine on? (Fan, pulleys, water pump, belts, etc) Its near impossible to turn everything over by hand with all that in the way. (Im open to suggestions if someone knows a better way) I think I was just a little hesitant when I hit zero lash and may have left a few just a tad loose.
04-06-2015, 09:08 AM
#12
Safety Car
04-06-2015, 09:11 AM
#13
Nam Labrat
Member Since: Sep 2013
Location: New Orleans Loo-z-anna
Posts: 33,897
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Worth every DIME! A little practice with one and you will learn how much to "bump" the starter.diehrd..........I'm also going to copy the quick-adjustment chart above and add it to my folder.
04-06-2015, 09:53 AM
#14
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Jul 2001
Location: Massapequa Park NY
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Bought a cheap set of chrome covers off of ebay for $18 for a BBC to make the final adjustment on mine. The chrome peeled off with tape 
but they got the job done.Loosen each rocker until it makes noise, tighten slowly until it quiets down & tighten 1/2 turn.
Jim
Last edited by 70BBvert; 04-06-2015 at 09:56 AM.
04-06-2015, 12:07 PM
#15
Melting Slicks
I just cut a piece of cardboard to fit for adjusting valves with the engine running. you can make it a little taller than a valve cover, and have virtually no mess when done. Works like a charm.....
04-06-2015, 12:19 PM
#16
Melting Slicks
I use tin foil on the end of the rocker arms to contain the oil.
I havent seen my special "topless" valve cover tool lately though.....wonder if it got lost in the move....
I havent seen my special "topless" valve cover tool lately though.....wonder if it got lost in the move....
04-06-2015, 12:34 PM
#17
Drifting
I just got my 454 put together and it fired right up. I was pretty happy about that but Im getting what I imagine to be some valve clatter at idle. At idle, it sounds like a few valves are making noises, if I rev it a bit the noise seems to lessen, but doesnt go away. Im not sure how to proceed right now. The only other 'valve noise; Ive ever heard is on a Dodge 318, and that was really more of a TIC TIC TIC. My engine noise is something between a 'TIC' and a exhaust manifold leak. Here are some givens..
1) Bottom end only has about 3K miles on it.
2) Valve lash was done by the 'wiggle up and down, get no wiggle, tighten 1/2 turn.
3) Engine was primed with a hand drill until oil pressure gauge started moving (about 10 seconds, gauge hit about 25lbs and I stopped)
4) Idle seems fine, no popping or spitting. (never brought it above 1500 RPM by flipping the throttle)
I want to take the easy route and just give them all another 1/4 turn, as re checking the lash now that everything is assembled will be damn near impossible. (rotating the engine with all the accessories in the way is a huge problem) Has anyone done the 'cut a junk valve cover and adjust while running?' method? The whole engine has been freshly painted and I dont really want to get oil everywhere.
Ive spent 4 months putting this thing together. What shall I do?
1) Bottom end only has about 3K miles on it.
2) Valve lash was done by the 'wiggle up and down, get no wiggle, tighten 1/2 turn.
3) Engine was primed with a hand drill until oil pressure gauge started moving (about 10 seconds, gauge hit about 25lbs and I stopped)
4) Idle seems fine, no popping or spitting. (never brought it above 1500 RPM by flipping the throttle)
I want to take the easy route and just give them all another 1/4 turn, as re checking the lash now that everything is assembled will be damn near impossible. (rotating the engine with all the accessories in the way is a huge problem) Has anyone done the 'cut a junk valve cover and adjust while running?' method? The whole engine has been freshly painted and I dont really want to get oil everywhere.
Ive spent 4 months putting this thing together. What shall I do?
04-06-2015, 05:15 PM
#18
Drifting
Thread Starter
04-07-2015, 02:10 AM
#19
Team Owner
Question: Did you prime the new hydraulic lifters before you installed them in the engine? If not, all bets are off on the initial lash setting process. Just go through the same process again and it should be fine. Setting them 'cold' is no big deal. Set them hot if you want, but I've never had any problems setting them with either method.
P.S. I do prefer the 'shake' method to the 'spin' method.
P.S. I do prefer the 'shake' method to the 'spin' method.
04-07-2015, 09:04 AM
#20
Racer
I've always used this method on my 75 350.
Lift distributed cap. Rotate till timing mark at zero and rotor points toward #1. Adjust the following valves: EXHAUST: 1,3,4,8. INTAKE: 1,2,5,7.
Rotate engine one full turn to timing mark at zero and rotor points toward #6. Adjust the following valves: EXHAUST: 2,5,6,7. INTAKE: 3,4,6,8.
I usually tighten the lifter till I can barely spin the rod then go 1 full turn. This has always worked for me on a stock setup.
Just my way, may not be yours.
Stump
Lift distributed cap. Rotate till timing mark at zero and rotor points toward #1. Adjust the following valves: EXHAUST: 1,3,4,8. INTAKE: 1,2,5,7.
Rotate engine one full turn to timing mark at zero and rotor points toward #6. Adjust the following valves: EXHAUST: 2,5,6,7. INTAKE: 3,4,6,8.
I usually tighten the lifter till I can barely spin the rod then go 1 full turn. This has always worked for me on a stock setup.
Just my way, may not be yours.
Stump