Oldguard 7

I have decided to chuck the multi area leak prone power assist steering system. I am going to purchase a non ps relay rod and pitman arm. But for now if I remove the power assist cylinder from the vehicle until my parts come how will the vehicle steer. Right now I drive the vehicle without a ps belt and the vehicle's steering is a little wandering. ( was not before these ps leaks started) The extra effort to turn the steering wheel at slow speeds does not bother me. Will the effort required to turn the steering wheel will be as great without the power assist cylinder or about the same as a true non ps car? Once I make the true conversion I will not go back to ps unless I can upgrade. (don't have the $ to do that just yet)

gerry72

The slop in the system comes from there being no pressure in the control valve. The cylinder is passive and it would make no difference in removing it or keeping it attached in how the car steers. A couple cycles of the system pushes the fluid out of the cylinder and at most, it offers only modest resistance and is virtually indistinguishable from a manual steer car. It should go without saying but the slop will go away with a manual drag link.

If you convert to a manual steer configuration, there are two holes in the steering knuckle. The hole nearest the spindle, or inner hole, is used for power steering and for quicker manual steering. The outer hole is the normal position and, much like the principles for any lever, lessens effort but increases travel, meaning more turns of the wheel.

7T1vette

A car with a P/S control valve installed, but without oil pressure, WILL NOT steer the same as a manual steering C3 system. There is a significant amount of 'freedom' built into the control valve that requires oil pressure to make the system "solid".

If you want a manual steering system you will have to remove the P/S components and install manual system components.

You easiest...and best...solution would be to install new P/S oil hoses/lines and rebuild the control valve and the assist cylinder seal set. If you can do the work, it is fairly inexpensive and you will end up with a working (and non-leaking) P/S system.

The13Bats

Yeah, I dig modifications but ditching the PS from a car that came with it is really backing up,
I drove my 66 no ps for years and then jumped in an 81 and boy oh boy,
My 69 has ps and I will have to tinker to get it working right and as slop free as it allows but it really is worth it...I could go to manual for free and would rather as cheap as I am spend some money to get it going.

Bigeddie

go with the burgeon steering box! if you want to keep the power steering in your car.with it you do not need a control valve or power assist cylinder that is the oem system. theres a few threads on this through out the forum. i do not regret the decision of doing the conversion on mine

7T1vette

Big Money or small money.....that's your choice. Re-engineer your car's steering for about a grand....or repair it for about a C-note and some elbow grease.

Bigeddie

Rack and pinion 1200 more or less, borgeson box 700..... from what I read oem stuff will always leak at one point even if bought new don't quote me tho. How much did you find the manual steering linkage for ?

The Money Pit

I rebuilt my entire power steering system twice, and got only a few years leak free each time. The garage floor was a constant mess because of the leaks. I cut the lines, removed the belt and drove a year or more like that to get a feel for "manual steering". Decided to convert to manual.

The road feel is what I think a sports car should feel like, but yes, at lower speeds you will need two hands on the wheel for parking maneuvers. My car is an 80, and the steering arm only has one hole for the tie rods, so I had no option to move to the outer set of holes. If I need to replace them at some point I would find a pair with dual holes, and use the outer holes for easier low speed steering.

LS4 PILOT

New non OEM hoses seem to fail a lot .

The old stuff was good for 20 years plus.

I had my steering pump and control valve rebuilt ONCE In 26 years . The modern Chinese ? hoses on the other hand are cheap and fail intermittent .

I've driven and owned BB corvettes , without PS .....I would rather have it , than NOT , if all possible.

On a lightweight 327 C2 ...it's not necessary.

The13Bats

Stop the presses Vikky Vale,
You mean the borgeson set up removes the pesty leak prone valve and cylinder but is still POWER steering...how?
What does the power part?

See, I am not all attached to the stock set up, but was told that with side pipe headers that rack and pinon will not fit my car...

Bigeddie

borgeson. sorry fat fingers here. for 602 before taxes and free shipping its a steal! i don't know if i can post link here because of forum rules which i do not know

TheSkunkWorks

As mentioned, it won't be as precise as would a full manual steering conversion, but you can certainly get around with the PoS [sic] slave cylinder, pump and etc. removed. (edit - Please don't read that as my saying one shouldn't strive to complete the conversion ASAP.) IIRC, redvetracr has a manual relay and pitman available. I'd definitely follow thru with a new HD idler while you're at it.

Effort wise, moving the outer tie rod ends to the rear holes in the steering knuckles will give you ~15% more mechanical advantage in exchange for the slower ratio. I've driven manual steer BB/C3s in both positions, and that 15% does make a noticeable difference at parking lot speeds. Your call as to whether the trade off is worth it. FWIW, typical bumpsteer blocks will put you pretty much 1/2 way between "slow" and "fast" ratios, but are only appropriate at lower ride heights and also increase Ackerman.

After you complete the conversion and start getting fairly accustomed to it I'd suggest playing around with caster settings to find the compromise between stability and nimble response that best suits you. Cranking in maximum caster isn't necessarily always better with manual steering. IMOE once you get a manual steer front end really dialed in you're not as likely to ever go back to PS. That said, if ever I were to do so the Borgeson system is the one I'd most probably do. Yep, no more PoS slave cylinder! Power assist is done in the box itself. My $.02, HTH.


TSW

redvetracr

here you go the HD manual relay rod in "bolt on" condition with a new clamp, rubber seal and ball stud, send a PM if you or anyone else is interested

'75

Bats, the Borgeson box does not use the cylinder or valve, the power assist is built into the steering box. You only have the pressure line from the pump to the box and a return line back to the pump, lots less opportunities for leaks.

The13Bats

I ran off and read about it...seems you have to cut the end off the steering shaft for it...
BUT it also sounds so worth it to get rid of that pos cylinder and valve...

Bad Bird

You only need to cut if you own a C2 car. With a C3 you only need to collapse the column slightly.

The13Bats

I read it that way too but the factory made it collapse for a reason, I would be curious what Jim Shea would think of this, not that I am against it but want to know a bit more on it...

Bigeddie

it took me a while to pull the trigger on it.(only after trashing my 79 and finding a 75 do do a mid restoration) money and collapsing the column the big deal... however some quick math made me realize that for about 100-150 more i could upgrade my steering and have a leak free system. read about it do your homework and it will clear the hooker side pipe headers which i have!

Wrecked82

Seems like I was replacing my leaking PS control valve every 3 years or so. Then I bought an AC Delco original about 10 years ago and have not had any problems since. Think the rebuilt, aftermarket stuff is junk. Or the shop doing the replacement was the problem. Last one done by a new shop.

jb78L-82

Must be that 1978 was a great year for C3 power steering cylinders and control valves since my OEM components are still on the car and don't leak and Forum member Karol as far as i know with his 78 L-82 also still has leak free OEM power steering components......with 106,000 miles on his original L-82 engine.

I think that the Borgeson steering boxes have their merits eliminating the PS cylinder and control valve if you don't mind changing the C3 components that were originally on the car (I did mind...and went another route) but I still say the major benefit of the Borgeson box has more to do with the quicker steering ratio (12.7:1) than the OEM steering box's (16:1) than mechanical differences between the 2 style boxes. If 12.7:1 steering gears were available for the OEM box, the difference between the 2 steering boxes would be minimal. I say that since I had my OEM box with 16:1 gears custom rebuilt/blue printed by a former forum member who does custom rebuilding of the OEM boxes on the side and the finished product was shockingly great...zero slop/play, pin point accurate steering, and better feel from a recirculating steering box (used up to recently on some BMW sedans BTW). Just a little perspective...